This is a first in a series of RxISK stories. We want any accounts of adverse or interesting events on drugs or new uses for drugs from people on them or doctors, pharmacists or others trying to manage the effects of drugs. We would be very interested in accounts of what happens when people take RxISK reports to doctors and what people may discover about their treatment.
Query from Fiona Barton
Dr Healy, a friend suggested I email you. I am desperate to get some support with my story.
I had a heart attack two years ago and was prescribed Clopidogrel and low dose Aspirin as my after care. Several months ago it was decided that I should come off the Clopidogrel. I was keen to do so as I had begun to get tinnitus and my research suggested that aspirin-like drugs could cause this. As I was told I would have no side effects, I stopped it dead. Three times that week I was admitted by ambulance to hospital with numbness down my left side and headaches. I had an emergency brain scan – all normal. I asked if it could be withdrawal from the Clopidogrel. They said no.
I went back on it. I then started to wean myself slower. As I did the tinnitus stopped. But then I was admitted to hospital again. Worse I had acute anxiety, suicidal thoughts and hallucinations. My doctor told me to go back on Clopidogrel and when I did the symptoms stopped but the tinnitus came back. I then tried an even slower withdrawal. Again I was admitted to hospital – this time with sweats, agitation, anxiety, pain, and headaches. I was told this is in my head and is anxiety in case I have another heart attack – absolute rubbish. This is following a pattern. I know it’s this drug.
The combination of Clopidogrel and aspirin I was told could cause gut problems and has caused me gut problems. But every time I try lansoprazole or omeprazole I get anxiety, hallucinations and numbness.
Can you offer me any advice or where to get help? I know I am chemically dependent on this drug. I don’t want to be on this for the rest of my life as was suggested by the cardiologist. You don’t have a problem on it so keep taking it, he said. What happens if the drug manufacture changes or I become tolerant and need more? What happens if I need surgery and have to stop it in case I have a bleed? I know my body would not take the shock of it stopping suddenly.
I was addicted to the benzodiazepines in the 1980s. It took me 3 years of hell to come off them so I know what withdrawal feels like and this is it. Please can you help? I don’t know who else to ask that will believe me.
RxISK response
The first point to make is that the options are to agree that this is a withdrawal syndrome or else to disbelieve FB. For FB, the stakes are high, including death and significant disability. For the doctors there are no bad consequences of disbelieving her. Indeed one of the consequences of believing her might be to start doubting the standard line about Clopidogrel and other drugs.
Second, FB presents a compelling case for a withdrawal syndrome from clopidogrel. The problems emerge on stopping a drug she had no reason to think could cause a problem, clear up on going back on the drug and reappear on reducing again, and this happens more than once. This is as compelling as it gets.
The first defense for those who don’t want to believe is to say that we cannot see how it could be happening and therefore the problems are not what they might appear to be. Taking this approach requires an alternate explanation – and in this case there is a temptation to pick on the anxiety symptoms and perhaps even the prior history of dependence on benzodiazepines. Someone with less inner conviction than FB may even be persuadable that this is all in her mind.
But there are ways to explain what is happening. Among the types of withdrawal is one that is sometimes termed rebound (Medicine Induced Stress Syndromes, Dependence and Withdrawal). This can lead to rebound heart rate increases in drugs like beta-blockers that slow heart rate and rebound clotting in drugs that reduce clotting. And in fact rebound clotting is well recognized on drugs like aspirin. Another that might fit the bill here is a legacy effect – an enduring effect after a drug is stopped.
Searching in RxISK under Clopidogrel shows that a withdrawal syndrome has been reported on a number of occasions (7 – in FDA’s database these reports come from Europe). European regulators may have many more reports. This frequency is so low that its proportional reporting ratio is close to 0. There is in other words no signal. On the basis of this we are faced with a choice between a compelling description of a withdrawal problem and the data which says no signal. I’m inclined to go with the compelling description. Part of the reason we likely have no signal is that the people affected by problems like this are not doing the reporting; it is doctors who find something like this close to inconceivable who are still the primary reporters of adverse events.
My inclination on reading FB’s report was to believe her. But more research on RxISK throws up further reasons to go with FB. There is a condition that is usually thought of as rare called thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP). In TTP, platelets in the blood form micro-clots (thrombosis) which can cause problems. But the micro-clots also remove platelets from blood which leads to bleeding (purpura). There are 169 reports of TTP on clopidogrel to FDA. This is a whopping signal – PRR = 22.2. (if the PRR is over 2.0, this is taken as evidence of a signal). We don’t know whether these have happened on withdrawal or not – FDA reporting systems don’t make these distinctions. But there is every chance that a significant number have happened on withdrawal. If recoded as part of a withdrawal syndrome, the signal for withdrawal would be much more salient. There is fact a great deal of evidence that stopping clopidogrel is linked to problems. Michael Ho and colleagues in JAMA (2008), 299: 532-539 have shown a doubling of mortality and in particular heart attacks in the 90 days after stopping clopidogrel.
TTP or related problems could readily give rise to just the clinical features FB reports, including anxiety, numbness down her arm, hallucinations and the rest.
RxISK also shows 108 reports of hemorrhagic stroke on clopidogrel. Again the signal for this (PRR = 13.6) suggests strongly that clopidogrel may be causing the problem. These strokes may be TTP related cases. The problem may be happening on the drug or on withdrawal – we just don’t know from the way the data is collected at the moment.
Finally another feature of FB’s case is her reaction to lansoprazole and omeprazole. European regulators have advised against combining clopidogrel with proton pump inhibiting drugs like these. Eliminating acid from the gut likely interferes with a range of different drugs, but in this case PPIs and clopidogrel also interact in the liver, causing FB to slip into withdrawal.
If you are a doctor you can put FB’s difficulties down to problems on the drug and not withdrawal but if you do this, then you cannot also say to FB that staying on clopidogrel is risk-free. Who moreover should make the choice as to whether she dies of a heart attack, or stroke, FB or her doctor? For many suffering a stroke is close to the ultimate horror.
Staying on the drug is not an easy way-out for other reasons. The risks FB outlines are very real – needing surgery, having the drug discontinued, or accidentally ending up without a supply. But in addition, staying on the drug itself cannot be assumed to be without consequences. We think of drugs like aspirin or the statins as acting simply on platelets or cholesterol levels and as a result wonder where the problem might be in staying on them.
But in fact just as the SSRIs do not work solely or even primarily on brain serotonin levels but even more so on blood system serotonin where just like aspirin they reduce platelet adhesiveness, leading to rebound clotting when stopped and cases of TTP and stroke, so also aspirin and statins can lead to extensive changes through the body that affect the brain and other organs. This can include change of personality, or might lead to other conditions improving or getting worse. We know a great deal about what happens soon after we start taking many drugs but know little about what the longer term effects are, and FB is right to be concerned.
Solutions
It will need great skill to come up an answer. FB may need input from a haematologist rather than a cardiologist. In other cases of withdrawal, I advocate using liquid forms of a drug to wean off very slowly, but Clopidogrel permanently blocks some receptors and so this approach is of no use. She would likely to better stopping Clopidogrel while taking warfarin or a heparin analogue, until her entire supply of platelets have turned over.
FB’s case challenges us to recognize that problems like this may be a manifestation of dependence and withdrawal, and that for instance many aspects of SSRI withdrawal may be intensely physical in origin rather than mental as people sometimes assume. We do not in this case know for instance if the permanent changes Clopidogrel causes in platelets might also happen in brain.
This is a case where patients need a doctor to work closely with them as a team. FB has filled a RxISK report and has taken a copy of this to her doctor.
Clopidogrel – Plavix
It seemed to be by chance that the first post on this RxISK blog is on Clopidogrel. But maybe not.
Christine MacVicar says
What sort of withdrawal effects should we expect from Risperidal, tapered from a 3mg dose at .25 per drop? There are significant dopamine tremors, will these get worse or better?
David_Healy says
Christine – very difficult to say without knowing all drugs etc. This needs to be done extraordinarily slowly. But a range of motor side effects, increased sensitivity to stress etc are all possible. Finally, it may simply not be possible to stop.
kes says
I stopped clopidegrel for three weeks for an operation when I restarted it I itched all over the first day. The second day I took it my pulse rose by thirty + and I had chest pains and was hot and had trouble breathing. My GP told me to try it again and on the third day my pulse rose again and I was hot and clammy. I am never going to take this drug again it makes e feel so ill.
David says
In August 2008 I had a Brain Haemorrhage. Following Stereotactic Radio Surgery I was prescribed a raft of blood pressure tablets to ensure my b.p which had never been high remained low. Then in October 2012 I suffered a stroke which initially took the use from my left side. I made a full recovery but do still have some minor residual issues. Following what I was led to believe I is pretty standard practice I was ultimately prescribed Clopidogrel which I have now taken for about three years. After six months I was distracted by severe tingling and pins and needles in my left hand side. This was NOT associated by my GP with Clopidogrel but I do now begin to wonder! Instead I was prescribed Gabapentin which I took for over a year before it was decided that it was responsible for mood swings and depression. So I came of this without any unexpected side effects.
Now three years after my stroke I have started suffering with heartburn an hour or so after eating anything. As a result I am having a Gastroscopy in two days time to investigate what may be the problem. Due to the potential for internal bleeding I was told by the hospital endoscopy department that I must stop taking Clopidogrel seven days before the procedure which I did. However a few days after stopping taking Clopidogrel I found myself to be increasingly suffering from the same distressing tingling and pins and needles in my left hand side. Since this was over Christmas there was no GP to discuss antything with. Being a little concerned my Wife and I have explored the Internet and found this article. We were very interested to read that Clopidogrel may well have a lot to answer for!!!
Gary says
I was decreasing my Xanax because I thought this was causing my anxiety and I definitely went through with drawl they gave me horrible anxiety, but unfortunately I started taking it around the clock on the same dose rather than taking it as needed because I did not even know how much I was taking taking it that way. I was so exhausted in the evening and I am on many cholesterol medicines and I skipped my Plavix for three days. I woke up shaking and feeling anxiety like I have never felt 10 days into my Xanax taper which I never even started tapering because the anxiety was still bear yea I was so exhausted in the evening and I am on many cholesterol medicines and I skipped my Plavix for three days. I woke up shaking and feeling anxiety like I have never felt this 10 days into my Xanax taper which I never even started tapering because the anxiety was still there. So on the third day of missing my Plavix and being on a standard dose, meaning the same dose of Xanax for 10 days, I woke up feeling shaky as could be and with my heart rate up and just overall anxious like crazy. In fact, my Xanax appeared not to be working at all. So I thought to myself what have I done differently and I realized I missed the Plavix for three days, so I immediately got up and took it. Within 30 minutes my anxiety was almost gone. My heart rate returned to its normal 75 bpm down from 125. I stopped shaking completely. I know it sounds weird and I’m a registered nurse which made it even harder for me to believe , But I swear by it. I am a person that goes to the emergency room when I feel like I’m dying The anxiety was so bad that I was ready to go and I did not even care if I did die Because I was suffering so badly. But once the anxiety one away from taking the Plavix, I was better in 30 minutes like I said. This is a drug I will wean off of, as I don’t even really need it anymore. My heart stent was back in 2011. I am a young guy so I was just taking it prophylactically anyway. I will be weaning off this drug starting tomorrow
M Baur says
I hope you have been successful getting off Plavix. I have had problems getting off and when I try I have serious muscle pain and double vision. Bless you and best of luck.
Charles Thomas Lambert says
For 60+ years I was a professional musician. Advocations included public speaking (17 wins, Toastmasters Int’l contests), freelance writing (numerous articles in regional publications). I also spent 6 years as radio announcer (99% of professional musicians have day jobs). I graduated college at age 54, magna cum laude, BS English education. My vocabulary prior to the incident I am reporting was well above normal as was my memory recall, both working and long term. I had a heart attack (MCI) in 2003 and was put on Plavix (clopigrel, 75mg), which I have taken daily since with several life endangering stoppages–14 TIAs after withdrawal of 2 days. The one I am concerned about happened about 2009.
Due to the negligence of a pharmacy employee who neglected to obtain refill approval from my cardiologist, I was deprived of the medication for 5 days. On the evening of the 5th day, I was visiting my son with my late wife–who was seriously ill, when my daughter–thank God, herself a highly skilled nurse–came into the house to see about her mother. I started to say hello and suddenly nothing would come out of my mouth. Of course, my daughter immediately did the START routine, but I had no typical stroke manifestations. I managed to tell her I needed my Plavix, and, from her knowledge as chief nurse at a Level II trauma center, she got me settled, stable, and set out to find a source of Plavix. A few hours later, she arrived with the medication and told me to to take an emergency dose of 3 pills (225 mg). Within a short time I was able to begin to speak, but not coherently. Gradually over about 72 hours, I became able to speak fairly well, but I groped for words and they came out somewhat garbled.
As time went by, I was able to speak barely normally, but still had trouble finding words. Then I discovered I could not listen to music because the notes were all wrong. I could no longer type proficiently–my fingers keep getting mixed up. The loss of music (my life!), writing, speaking, and memory recall (it often takes me 2+ days to think of common words by going through the alphabet letter by letter).
I will be 82 in just over a month, and I hear (even from most doctors) “You’re just getting old!” constantly. But I don’t think one can get “old” in just a matter of hours.
I apologize for the length of this piece, but I needed to explain the background so that one can understand the extent of this debilitating phenomenon and hope that someone knows if there is any remediation whether surgically or through rehabitation.
Delana Albrecht says
I had a stroke years ago, at age . I was active and pain free. Immediately after Clopidogrel, I became moody, stiff, extreme joint pain and daily miagrains. I wish to get off this drug, however, I was without prescription for days and became VERY ILL. How can I get off safely? Doctors want me to stay on
Bannon Dyer says
There is a study published by the National Institute of Health for long-term plavix users with stents, on just taking plavix every other day, while maintaining their daily low dose aspirin. Has anyone done this?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22075236/
Rose Kuder says
August 29,2022, I had coiling and stenting for 2 carotid artery aneurysms in my brain, non‐ruptured, had been on plavix 75mg daily and my 81mg aspirin. Then several months ago I was switched to 1/2 dose every other day, and on March 3rd,stopped completely, but of course the baby aspirin is life long. I am trying not to get worried about it but I don’t know if I was really ready to stop. My follow up angio is not until sometime in April. W I should me
Lisa says
My dad has been on plavix for over 25 years and the Dr stopped it cold turkey.he has been very sick since no coordinator can’t stay awake and mid sentence just stops talking and zones out then starts talking again..to my opinion drs are playing Russian roulette with people and then don’t believe you.