Editorial Note: This is M’s story. She outlines a Prescribing Cascade. In an email she also asks a question: does anyone have any evidence of SSRI withdrawal causing Vit D deficiency?
HRT
HRT started it all. Peri menopausal at 45, my GP did a FSH test and prescribed Climagest – oral oestrogen and progesterone. Hot flushes disappeared and I felt myself again.
Two years later, in 1999, I am diagnosed with a huge fibroid which the Gynaecologist told me had probably been caused by HRT. I’d had various symptoms consistent with a fibroid but had put it down to ‘my age’. I have a total abdominal hysterectomy and oophorectomy and recover well. At my post op consultation with the Gynaecologist I am prescribed transdermal oestrogen (Femseven Plus) which he tells me I can take for as long as I liked. He is a huge proponent of HRT and and an eminent Gynaecologist. I have no reason to doubt his advice.
In 2009, I retire from my hectic job as a Primary School Head at the age of 58. I decide it’s time to stop the HRT. I have quite severe flushes but no other problems and they disappear in a few months.
After my retirement, I spend two years travelling all over the world. Life is good – and even better when I meet my husband in 2010. My life has been dominated by work and I have never been married.
We marry in October 2011 and it is such a wonderful day. Three days afterwards I had a letter to return to Breast Screening. I’d had a routine mammogram just before we got married.
There we learn that I probably have an oestrogen receptive Breast Cancer. This is confirmed by the breast surgeon I see the following week. I have a lumpectomy in November 2011, followed by a second op for wider excision and a third op to drain a haematoma.
I feel fine. I am not at all fazed by ‘cancer’ and face the future optimistically. I have four week of radiotherapy and am prescribed Arimidex.
While they are measuring me up for the radiotherapy, there is an incidental finding which turns out to be follicular thyroid cancer. I have one lobe removed in April 2012 and, when the cancer is confirmed, the second lobe. I am given the replacement thyroid hormone Liothyronine (T3) pending treatment with Radioactive Iodine. I feel very well – full of energy. John and I go on long walks and all is well.
Again, I’m not too worried about the cancer. After all, Thyroid Cancer is ‘the good cancer’. My Oncologist seems concerned about my coping with the 3 day isolation involved in the RAI therapy. I’m at all worried about that. 3 days isolation with Jeremy Kyle, a pile of books and plenty of chocolate. No worries.
I’m not too worried either when the technician arrives in his spaceman gear carrying a large flask. He puts it on the table, removes a capsule with great dexterity, with instructions that I should drink it. He then flees from the room.
I swallow it with some trepidation and wait to see what will happen. I expect to turn into a glowing shape. However, all remains normal so I begin the first of several chocolate binges. The technician returns several times, still in his space suit and armed with his Geiger counter which rattles away at various rates of hysteria until I am deemed fit to rejoin the world. I feel fine – just hungry. I’ve had a few trays of hospital food slung through a hatch but they don’t quite hit the spot.
T3 or not T3
I have to continue the T3 until the following February 2013 when I have my 6 monthly scan to check that all the little demons had gone. They have. But new demons are on their way
It is time to be put onto Levothyroxine. Two weeks later, the problems begin. I have no energy, I ache all over and, for the first time since my health saga began, I feel as though I can’t be bothered with anything. I wonder if this deterioration has anything to do with the RAI – after all I’d signed a consent form which warned of the potential for another primary cancer.
My blood results show FT4 at 42 (top of range 22) and FT3 is 6.8. My TSH is suppressed as required. The registrar at Oncology says this is ‘perfect’ and that the high FT4 should be ignored. I don’t feel ‘perfect’. I have muscle pain, fatigue and all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I phone the oncologist and she says that I probably have a virus.
As things get worse, I ask for a second opinion and learn that my high FT4 is making me feel ill. It is also probably falsifying the FT3 result. In short, I need to reduce the Levothyroxine and all will be well. It isn’t well, and neither am I. As the FT4 comes down to a more acceptable level, so does the FT3. I still feel like a dead thing.
Another visit to another endocrinologist confirms that I am not ‘converting’ T4 to T3 (not an uncommon problem it seems). The endocrinologist I see is happy to declare this as he is a proponent of Liothyronine (T3) – which I had taken so successfully after my thyroidectomy. He prescribes a combination of Liothyronine and Levothroxine. Gradually, things improve.
After a while, I begin to feel unwell again although the blood results look acceptable. The Endo tells me that some people are intolerant of Levothyroxine. He prescribes T3 only. Hooray. Result. I feel much better, though not as good as I had done when on this drug before. I decide that this is probably as good as it gets.
Then the CCGs under the guidance of NICE, declare Liothyronine to be the food of Beelzebub. Suddenly, my endo is concerned about my taking T3 – concerned about my heart, osteoporosis, my suppressed TSH – none of which had been a concern before. On these grounds, he puts me back on Levothyroxine – the same drug which he had declared unsuitable just months before.
There is no way I can go through this saga again. I know there is no way I will get T3 on the NHS and Private Prescriptions are exorbitant. After some research, I decide to buy my own Natural Dessicated Thyroid (Porcine NDT). I carefully calculate the dose I need. Now, 7 months later, my bloods are perfect. No conversion problems now. I wish I’d done it years ago.
Prozac
During the early days of thyroid mayhem, when I was believed to have ‘a virus’, my GP decided that I was depressed. He puts me on Citalopram. I feel no better and wean myself off it after a year. Cross GP. I tell him I am not depressed, that I am just totally fed up with feeling poorly. He shakes his head. Depression.
As things get worse, mainly because of the inappropriate thyroid meds and also possibly because of the side effects of Arimidex (for the Breast cancer – fatigue, joint pain) he persists in his diagnosis and prescribes Prozac 20 mg a day. By this time, I am suffering dreadful migraines and he tells me that the Prozac will help. The Breast Oncologist, after calculating recurrence risk, stops the Arimidex in case it is a factor.
The start-up symptoms of the Prozac are truly dreadful, but after a couple of weeks I settle into a semi – comatose state of alternating indifference and hopeless despair. I go for my GP review. I have many questions. One of them is:
“How do you know that my brain needs Serotonin? Perhaps it’s got too much now.”
Doc tells me not to ‘overthink’ things and increases dose. Can’t even think, so hard to see overthinking as a problem.
Biphosphonates
I have also been diagnosed with Osteoporosis. I am given the dreaded weekly Alendronic Acid together with a Calcium / D3 supplement. I take it for a few months but symptoms of Oesophagitis and Gastritis increase. My stomach feels as though I’ve swallowed acid. I am scoped and given Omeprazole.
I develop urinary problems and spent most of the night on the loo trying unsuccessfully to pee. Paradoxically, I pee without difficulty almost all day. Meanwhile, the Calcium is doing its work and severe constipation sets in. I become achingly familiar with the floors and walls of most of the lavatories in places I visited.
It is decided to give me an oral dose of Oxybutinin to sort out he urinary problems. Within 48 hours, I am crazy. I go out and can’t remember my way home. Although retired, I am working to support a friend who is expecting an Ofsted Inspection. I am about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I can’t even remember how to spell ‘school’. She takes me home and my husband took gets me straight to our GP. He can’t believe it was the Oxybutenin (lots of older people have it – it’s widely prescribed. Grrr.) He has a good look at the BNF and then tells me it’s a rare side effect and I must never have it again.
As time passes and I refuse to touch Alendronic Acid with a barge pole, my stomach settles. I stopped the Omeprazole. Within a couple of days, the wee problems stop. I read the leaflet. Another ‘rare’ side effect.
The Oncology team become concerned that I am having no meds for the Osteoporosis. A bright new star of a registrar suggests I start Boniva – a monthly dose of Ibandronic Acid.
“At least you’ll only have indigestion once a month” he beams.
The word ‘acid’ strikes terror in my heart but I know my T scores have dropped at the last DEXA scan and give in. I take just one dose and the effect is devastating. I have crippling fatigue and body pain – flu symptoms from hell – and they stay with me for months.
I never take it again.
By now, I’ve had migraines for several months, almost 24/7. I go to see a Neurologist privately who tells me that my brain needs to be ‘rewired’. He prescribes Topirimate (actually licensed as an anti-convulsant). After a month or so, I wean myself off it. It has obviously lost its rewiring technique and is sending me crazier than the Oxybutinin. I fear for my sanity. The migraines rage away relentlessly. We are now in March 2017. I do a bit more research. I start to take magnesium and mega doses of vitamin B12. In three days, the migraine goes away and I haven’t had one since. (Not claiming to know why!)
Prozac Again
The Prozac still isn’t going too well. My legs feel as though I am wearing lead boots. I can’t lift my arms. Showering and washing my hair became a major issue involving a lie down afterwards. My husband takes over the cooking and household chores as I crawl around the house like a sloth and withdraw from any sort of life as I knew it. I don’t want to see people. My emotions are blunted, if non-existent. I am so desperately sad but I can’t cry – or laugh or express any feelings at all. My family and friends fight to understand but I am just too tired and dispirited to even try to explain.
Once again, I seek a consultation with someone who I hope can help me. This time a Psychiatrist. Perhaps I’m on the wrong antidepressant.
This wonderful lady talks to me for over an hour and has to endure (at her request) the story of my life. She concludes that I am a high functioning individual who is ‘sad but not mad’. She write to my GP to say that I require no pharmaceutical intervention and that, furthermore, it is counterproductive.
My GP keeps me on the Prozac.
My husband took me once more to see him. He now suspected that I have all the symptoms of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue. He refers me to a rheumatologist. I’ve seen more ‘ologists’ than I can remember. Because of my history of malignancies, I’ve been investigated with care and concern. I’ve spent hours in CT machines. MRI tunnels. I’ve had so much blood taken that I feel as though I’ve got caught up in some horrible vampire movie. These tests have thrown up a few random results –interstitial cystitis, hiatus hernia, a polyp in my bowel. All very interesting but no light shed on my current state.
In October 2017, I decide that I want to stop the Prozac. GP tells me it’s an easy AD for withdrawal. One on alternate days and then stop. That didn’t work. I soon start to go into withdrawal and decide to go back to the beginning and discontinue them very slowly. I get down to 2.5 mg at end of January this year. Cracked it. No, not quite. Feel a bit iffy – but then the nightmare begins.
I developed nerve pain in both knees and legs. Darting, creeping, stabbing. At night the pain itself disappeared and is replaced by an appalling burning pain from feet upwards into my knees.
Gabapentin
Two weeks ago I saw the Rheumatologist. She examines me carefully, takes a history and diagnoses me with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue. She’s not convinced, though, that the nerve pain in my legs is part of it. She orders Nerve Conduction Tests and mentions that Prozac can cause Peripheral Neuropathy. Dear God. I am to go for these tests at the end of April but I shall go with a heavy heart. I know that the only answer will be a lifetime of Gabapentin or a similar drug.
I ask the Rheumatologist what causes Fibromyalgia / CFS. She tells me that no-one really knows but that it can be the result of trauma and that it cannot be cured – only managed.
I recovered from two cancers without any problems. To my mind, the only ‘traumas’ I have suffered are those imposed upon me by medications. My body has been savaged beyond reason.
She prescribes the Gabapentin 300 mg bd. I take them for a week. Then I panic that this is yet another drug from which I shall have to withdraw. I decide to stop it – and two nights later wake up with legs like deep fried chicken legs. My husband finds me, weeping, trying to get into a cold bath to put out the fire. I get stuck in trying to do so because my dysfunctional knees (osteoarthritis) decide to seize up. John hauls me out of the bath, gets me a Gabapentin and holds me tightly until it kicks in about two hours later.
I can’t believe what has happened to me –not in the name of illness but because of inept, ignorant and thoughtless prescribing and avaricious pharma.
As I sit writing this, my mind drifts back to our honeymoon. We are walking hand in hand along a beach in Paphos, Cyprus. I do not have a care in the world. I know that I will never do that again.
Ironically, I am now depressed for the first time in my life.
Heather R says
It goes without saying that reading M’s story makes one feel so furious with her stupid GP and so desperate for this brave lady, who, even having gone through all she has, adds touches of humour as she recounts it.
But, to comment on her question about having low Vitamin D, I can’t say my low level was sparked by SSRIs as I’ve never taken them, but I do know that a surprisingly large number of friends and acquaintances have told me they also have low Vitamin D, and the latest medical ‘craze’ seems to want to stick people on it in pill form. If a sunny holiday in The Cape Verde islands was prescribed, to top my levels up, that would interest me. One of my GPs, (not the listening variety) wanted to put me on a massive dose of Vitamin D, (normal dose one pill weekly, his insistence 2 pills daily) and this after I’d explained that I find I don’t tolerate any medication well, never have done. Needless to say, I didn’t take them but went back 4 weeks later (it takes that long to get an appointment) to see a lady GP with whom I’d previously been impressed, who gave me a normal weekly dose and excused her colleague by saying, “ oh, I expect he just wanted to flood your system and get it going…”. It may be that lots of us are low in Vitamin D due to a dull winter, but my test was done at the end of the relatively sunny summer. I just wonder if there is a Government push to fill us up with Vitamin D because they think it’ll stop us getting dementia and save them money in the long term.
I’d love to know if there is a massive amount of Vitamin D prescribing going on right now. And whether we really need pills for it.
M seems to have had pills for everything, and yet bravely kept smiling, till now. I am full of admiration for the sheer guts of this lady, but so sorry to read of the madness by all but her lady psychiatrist, that has messed up what should have been a wonderful retirement with her husband. The first thing I’d do would be to change to a listening and hopefully intelligent GP if she can. And then fix her sights on harnessing her obvious courage to regain as much joy in her life as she can. One wishes her story was unique, but the dreadful fact is, she is one amongst so many who have the same crazy regime of thoughtless prescribing, the same endless waterfall of damage and destruction by so-called medication.
Katie B-T says
Hi M,
I’m very sorry to hear about your ongoing ordeal. I do think that adverse events from medications have also been the worst thing I have ever gone through/continue to go through. From your story I relate to the neuropathy in the feet and the intersistial cystitis. I was surprised that you got an MD to say they believed you that the Prozac caused the neuropathy in your legs and feet. Haven’t gotten one to yet. The other thing that struck me about your how story is how we just aren’t as rare as the MD’s say. The very few who will humor me (they still don’t believe it) that the meds caused the damage then always go on to counter with how rare it is. That there is something wrong with me and my biology. I just don’t think we are rare. I think that’s what the MD’s tell themselves to sleep at night.
Heather R says
A little more on Vitamin D – having spoken yesterday to a health care professional, she says the Vitamin D I’ve been taking could have caused gallstones and the subsequent gallbladder and liver problems I’ve recently suffered. I wonder whether others have experienced this? BioCare also have a kind of helpline which I idly scanned today, and there is news there that apparently a study shows Vitamin D assists weight loss. And somewhere else I read that weight loss, if too quick, can cause gallstones. In my long life I have never been aware of gallbladder problems before. Nor have I ever been prescribed or taken Vitamin D.
I just add this in case M is being offered Vitamin D in addition to all her other drugs, maybe to counter osteoporosis (which I don’t have) but if it has side effects we are not made aware of, this needs considering. She already seems to have had enough side effects to cope with….
Damian says
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/antidepressants-obesity-depression-weight-gain-uk-nhs-mirtazapine-mental-health-a8366111.html
Can there be any rationale for these drugs. They are a menace.
susanne says
Such a sad sorry – really wishing you better day by day soon and luck in finding a good GP.
There are different reasons why people can’t do that but it can become a kind of dependency similar to the way victims get attached to abusers.(of course I am not referring to you M) even if a medic isn’t trusted to have good skills or knowledge of a condition or is known to create poor relationships it can still be an anxious decision to move on. A BBC1 prog 23 May was worth a viewing Series 2 Episode 1 The Doctor Who Gave Up the Drugs’ Chris Van Tullecken’ Concentrated on the massive over use of Calpon which is allowed to put misleading labels on the product and failed to get an interview with the drugs company. R evealed an 800%increase in medicated children diagnosed with ADHD , NICE rep from cttee which drew up the guidelines admitted there is no long term evidence to base their guidelines on The doctor put a lot of faith in Mindfulness which had a good outcome for some children but only with continued use with some medication . He should have mentioned that there is no long term evidence for mindfulness either but at least it is not causing the harms which are well known by now. One little boy beautifully described how he felt when off the drugs – he had got his own self – the one he was born with, back again. Another episode next week on adolescents and medications for depression.
Micheline says
A naturopath will not try to kill you with chemicals. This is my take on our medical industry. After my own fiasco with psych drugs, I only go to my gp for required prescriptions to wean off and yearly blood test. Best of luck to you, see a naturopath instead.
susanne says
PS Have sent the doctor’s agent info re the Rxisk and David Healy blogs with a request that they consider doing a further programme . Had no response to a previous request but ….
Carla says
M’s story is all too familiar.
I am sorry you have suffered unnecessarily.
Thank goodness for whistle-blowers.
Where would we be without them?
I wonder if adulterated drugs occur in other drug companies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJh9o-MCPXw
annie says
How The Light Gets In …
https://hay.htlgi.iai.tv/programme-page
Debates & Talks
Sex, Lies and Pharmacology
David Healy
From antidepressants to acne treatment, are prescription drugs destroying our sex lives? Radical psychiatrist David Healy exposes the hidden side-effects of psychiatric drugs.
“Important and thought-provoking” Independent
Your Life in the Balance
Pharmageddon author David Healy, Cambridge philosopher and author Medical Nihilism Jacob Stegenga, and Policy Lead at the Medical Protection Society Pallavi Bradshaw rethink medical authority.
Pallavi Bradshaw, David Healy, Jacob Stegenga. Philip Ball hosts.
Clinical error in the UK is responsible for six times as many deaths as road accidents. Some claim there is a risk it will become the UK’s primary killer. Are we wrong to trust in medical authority? Should we assume that doctor knows best, despite the mistakes? Or is doctors power dangerous and we should look elsewhere, perhaps intelligent technology, to regain control?
mary H. says
This debate was very well attended and appreciated. They had a very good host who really moved the debate forward.He seemed to take a great interest in particular, I felt, to what David had to say. I’m not sure that they took to your idea of artificial intelligence being the future ‘doctor’ for many of us though! – they seemed rather stuck on ‘robots’ didn’t they, missing out the possibility of an ‘intelligent, listening, learning from its mistakes’ kind of A I.
We should all await this debate on IAI with interest. Pity that they’re rather slow in getting these things out for all to enjoy.
annie says
some @DrDavidHealy-esque docs: ..
John Read @ReadReadj
Great study, in PSYCHOSIS journal, showing that almost all (97%) people who try to get off antidepressants experience withdrawal effects
https://twitter.com/ReadReadj/status/999921851424911360
Fiona French @benzosarebad May 27
Sounds a bit like the letter to the Times by @wendyburn and Prof David Baldwin stating that antidepressant withdrawal only lasts about two weeks for the vast majority of patients .
Wendy Burn @wendyburn May 27
Replying to @benzosarebad
I agree with you that benzodiazepines are addictive.
Esque docs … ?
annie says
And, the point of this interview………………………..was?
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-05-29/people-on-antidepressants-need-more-support-mental-health-campaigners-say/
Did you remember what Michelle said …
Did you remember what Roland said
Dr Roland Zahn, a consultant psychiatrist, argues that a shortage of GPs combined with an increasing workload meant doctors struggled to dedicate the appropriate time to discuss medication with patients.
Did you remember what Stoke-Lampard said
Helen Stokes-Lampard, chairwoman of the Royal College of GPs, told ITV News: “We can assure our patients that GPs will always prescribe in the best interests of the individual patient in front of us, taking into account the physical, psychological and social factors that might be impacting on their health.”
Dogmatic Stokes-Lampard using verbal licence WILL ALWAYS flies in the face of anything resembling what patients are experiencing in the life of, Rxisk, hard knocks ..
annie says
Catch up on – Dr. Peter Gordon and 10/10 for ‘curt’ – attracting members …
Kristina K. Gehrki @AkathisiaRx 4h
Replying to @benzosarebad @rcpsych
RCP seems to care more about its party line than healthcare. “An effective team is one where the team members…communicate with each other, as well as merging their observations, expertise and decision-making responsibilities to optimize patients’ care.”
https://twitter.com/benzosarebad/status/1001785119001149442
Hole Ousia
https://holeousia.com/2018/05/30/the-presidents-medal-winners/
The President’s Medal Winners ..
annie says
Time is running out to sign up for MIA Continuing Education’s important upcoming webinar series on: “Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal Part II: The Psychiatrist’s Perspective on Challenges, Opportunities, and Shared Decision Making.”
The course is composed of eight webinar presentations by an international roster of presenters. All seminars will be recorded and may be viewed at a time of your choosing.
Webinars
https://education.madinamerica.com/p/psychiatric-drug-withdrawal-ii
September 18, 2018: David Healy, MD and Johanna Ryan
1:30-3pm Eastern, 10:30-noon Pacific
SSRIs and sexual dysfunction: A look at this adverse effect during SSRI use, and PSSD: sexual dysfunction that persists after withdrawal, and what this may signal regarding renormalization of serotonergic function.
Johanna Ryan is a workers’ comp paralegal and a union and healthcare activist in Chicago. She may or may not have a biological brain disease, but she is definitely allergic to capitalism and addicted to asking questions.
Laurie Oakley is a person with lived experience who was prescribed SSRI’s for her depression in the 1990’s, which caused cognitive difficulties, suicidal ideation, and panic attacks. She was then prescribed Klonopin for the panic attacks, which left her with chronic, untreatable insomnia. Her memoir, Crazy and It Was, interweaves journal entries on her experiences with psychiatric drugs with research studies on psychiatric medication and information about the influence of the pharmaceutical industry. Now she leads a withdrawal group in her community, a vital resource for people coming off psychiatric drugs.
Maureen Oxley says
Thank you to the people who responded to my feature blog.
Annie and Mary – is it possible that your personal dialogue here could take place in a different blog thread / forum?
Your comments are meaningless to me – and possibly to other respondents.
Thank you
M
mary H. says
I am so sorry that you missed the point of Annie’s comment and my reply to it Maureen. The debate in question was ‘Should we trust doctors’ which I felt fitted well in the context of your feature blog.
Maureen Oxley says
……. It did. Thank you. Looking back at this blog 6 years later nothing has changed and the end of the beginning has become the beginning of the end. I’m dying a slow death and now the spectre of Functional Neurological Disorder has arrived to comfort the inept doctors who’ve been too blind, ignorant or feel too guilty to face the consequences of their failures. Dignitas can’t come soon enough.