Medication and Withdrawal

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March 16, 2016 | 43 Comments

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  1. Just an idea but maybe having a forum for people suffering through these symptoms would be a good idea.There needs to be a one stop shop that people and doctors know exist. Forums are a plenty on the web but its all scattered and not easy to find. I got my first answers from survivingantidepressents.org eight months after I had been suffering from SSRI withdrawal. All too often people search for answers on the web when these withdrawal symptoms hit but don’t end up finding the right website or information. Having a reputable website with large numbers of users on a forum might bring to light some of unethical misguided information that’s being spread about so called safe drugs and provide people with relief that no they are not going crazy. A bigger issue though might be making the website easy for people to find. Examples are if you are suffering from severe Lexapro withdrawal symptoms The first website that comes up is thishttp://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/05/07/lexapro-withdrawal-symptoms-how-long-do-they-last/
    If you scroll through the bottom you will notice about 500 comments. Every week maybe 3 or 4 new people describing thr severity of symptoms and asking for answers. When I contacted the site provider he said he gets 50 or more messages a day just for lexapro and can’t post them all. Usually he only posts 2 or 3 a week which makes me believe millions are suffering and going to the web for answers. This website is the the first site that comes up for all the class of SSRI drugs. So he may be getting 200 messages a day or more across the board. This is just one website.

    Lastly I want to thank you for all the good work you are doing to tackle an ever growing problem. One day soon I do believe you will break through and this information will start ti become mainstream. I wish you guys could advertise and do commercials for awareness but I know its not that easy. Thanks again

  2. Got a question from Mick Bramham via Twitter:

    @RxISK Am I missing something: at one time I could easily find chem structure & which neurotransmitters etc a drug impacts upon – where now?

    Answer (I think): Click on “Product Data Sheet” which was formerly called “FDA Prescribing Info.” (This is different from “Medication Guide” which is a very basic set of instructions for the taker, produced by the pharmaceutical company.) The stuff about structure and clinical pharmacology, which used to come first, now starts with Item 11.

    In general, I think the new site has a lot of great information — but it is taking me a long time to figure out how to find it! I just now discovered the Interaction Checker, which I have sorely missed. A couple of people have also asked me about the various options they get when they fill in a drug name — is it important to pick the correct country? And do you then get side effect reports that are limited to that country?

    Someone posted a RxISK link on the “Cymbalta Hurts Worse” website, which must have seemed to her like the best choice because it included the most countries. It’s a doozy:

    https://rxisk.org/drug/942/duloxetine/102084/cymbalta-(ae,-ar,-at,-au,-be,-bg,-bh,-br,-ch,-cl,-cn,-co,-cr,-cy,-cz,-de,-dk,-do,-ec,-ee,-es,-fi,-fr,-gb,-gt,-hk,-hn,-hr,-hu,-id,-ie,-il,-it,-jp,-kr,-kw,-lb,-lt,-mt,-mx,-my,-ni,-nl,-no,-nz,-pa,-pe,-ph,-pl,-qa,-ro,-ru,-sa,-se,-sg,-sk,-th,-tr,-tw)/

  3. Just the other night we had a friend over for tea.
    Our discussion was centred around the medical system especially, in regards to relating to the management of the elderly who have the early onset of dementia.
    All the red tape this poor person had to go through did not reassure me.
    I was left feeling very disheartened with the whole process.
    He generally was well informed about everything.
    Then we got onto the topic of how medicines impact the brain.
    My favourite topic : )
    Unfortunately, it is a topic which many do not want to discuss.
    It is kind of like a taboo that alienates us all from confronting issues that may impact anyone.
    Why are some people so afraid of engaging in this topic?
    Like cancer, death, illnesses, many don’t want to go there.
    These topics are part of life.
    Why can’t we talk about matters like this in a civil way?
    I would have thought that the more information we have, the better we are as universe to deal with complex health issues, without ingesting a pill for every ailment.
    Surely, there are other tools we could add to our toolbox that leaves us empowered to make better choices.
    It is hard to educate some of the elderly.
    It is hard to educate a generation that still complies within the rigid medical infrastructure, which is tainted with lies and deceit.
    It is hard to educate medical professionals about the complexities at hand.
    There is a big price to pay when you try to ‘expand peoples mindsets!’
    Educating people about how certain medications impact the brain, isn’t an easy thing to do.
    Back to our discussion………………………………..
    I tried to open up a positive discussion without being ‘in his face’.
    When I had informed him that I was very worried about the impact of medicines on certain individuals, he was somewhat overwhelmed by what I was saying.
    The response I received whether, it was in a joking or confrontational way, did not leave me feeling confident about what I was trying to achieve.
    The response I received was:
    ‘Carla you worry too much!’ – You need to relax and take two cereprexes and everything will be fine :’ (
    This is the kind of mentality some medical professionals uphold and it is this kind of ‘stereotypical behaviour’ that has to be changed.
    Just because someone worries about the current state of our health system and how medicines impact the brain, I was all of a sudden perceived as a sceptic and deranged individual.
    Anyway, this is the impression I got. I am still licking my wounds.
    I tried to inform him that we tend to believe everything a doctor tells us.
    We have all been programmed to believe that all medicines are a blessing.
    If this was the case, the world would not be in such turmoil.
    I could tell he was curious and he listened to what I had to say. He was not convinced with the debate that medicines impact people’s minds.
    He knows about this site.
    I wonder how much information should be given to individuals who are not ready to hear the truth.
    We can all stick our heads in the sand and deny we have a major problem. Some medical professionals do this, also.
    When one experiences an adverse event, which impact their life, they are all ready and willing to listen. Too late : (
    We got to try and get through to the masses before an unfortunate crisis occurs.
    There are many good men doing this.
    Thank you, everyone who tries to educate the people.

    Anyway, I did not know how to reply to his response but, in a kind of disgruntled way, I was quite unhappy knowing that someone would give me a response like that especially, knowing everything I had been through.
    I replied: ‘That is not a nice thing to say!’
    No reply.
    All I could hear was laughter in the background, which did not comfort me at all.
    This is the kind of response that would make you feel lonely, going through this ‘hell of a journey’ without any recognition, support or validation of what I have been through.
    Generally speaking, some people are not prepared to take this kind of information in.
    It goes against the grain of how the whole health system is run.
    People like to believe that everything is ‘hunky dory’ and there is no such thing as what I was mentioning, being factual evidence.
    His mindset was:
    ‘What if the people who committed suicides/homicides and displayed angry outbursts was a result of people not taking their medication?’
    This could also be the case.
    It would have taken me a whole night just to explain what I was trying to educate him about.
    There are some people who get it and some who make a joke about issues like this.
    All I know is that it takes one person at a time to make them fully appreciate the dilemmas of the topic discussed.
    Creating awareness opens up the consciousness before people dive in and ignore the caveats.
    Thinking outside the box, is not easy for everyone who has been accustomed to thinking one way.
    Why does it take a negative experience for some people to get it!
    Have we got a long way to go in terms of educating the populace.

    • Carla,
      I think you did exactly what is needed which is to tell it as you see it. Keep repeating it – the more often people hear it, the more likely they are to eventually begin to wonder if you’re on to something worth listening to. Worry not about their attitude towards what you have to say; the more they mock etc. the more likely it is that you have, in fact, touched a nerve but they are not quite ready to go on the journey with you just yet.
      I can fully understand that you felt very hurt by the response you got. It is because of such comments that people shy away from freely sharing their true stories of unnecessary suffering. Unfortunately, the opposite can also be said to be true – that people make these comments because so little is heard, generally, about the true suffering which goes on as a result of medications.
      Keep up the good work – we are with you all the way!

    • Carla,
      Thank you for expressing so clearly for what I struggle with daily.

      As someone who sees the suffering on http://www.survivingantidepressants.org I often want to speak up to the people in my day-to-day life.

      A friend taking SSRI for pain, “depression” or menopause, or even sleep issues. A 6 year old child on a neuroleptic for a “behaviour disorder.” Myriads on “attention drugs.” My 86 year old Mother who keeps falling and forgetting, but won’t quit the 25-year Xanax habit. My brother, who believes that he must be on “meds for life” because of a “panic disorder.”

      The list is endless, as 30% of the population is on something for problems of living.

      People who believe their “brain is broken” and must be on the drugs for life.

      There is something to Dr. Breggin’s “medication spellbinding,” and I wonder if your friend is spellbound by any of the drugs he is on.

      There is very little concise information available that doesn’t cause people to start twirling their fingers around their ears.

      It doesn’t matter that I can quote hundreds of articles, books, and respected authorities on the topic. The 30-sec media grab overrules the growing population of researchers and sufferers who believe these drugs are harmful, especially when used long term.

      The discussion of the suicides, violence, school shootings being connected with the drugs – vs. “mental illness,” or “they were deeply disturbed” – is one I also wrestle with. Especially when there is a high profile suicide, and all the “anti-stigma” (read: pro-drug) campaigns come out all over again.

      Where is my 30-sec media grab, and how can this message get through? I feel I have exactly that long to get my point across before the eyes glaze over, and I’m thrown in with “libertarian” conspiracy theorists.

      I try to walk my talk, and am proud to announce that I have been psych drug free since January, and euthymic for over a year now, after 30 years of suffering. That’s my 30-sec media grab, and it does cause people to ask more questions.

      If we can get them to ask the questions – then, perhaps, they are more engaged. The challenge is answering their questions in a way which opens the door just enough for them to look through, without scaring them so much that they slam the door shut.

      • And that’s just the psych drugs.

        I can’t even begin – I don’t have the knowledge base – to address the multitudes of “mistakes” made in the name of cardio care:

        The statins
        the blood pressure drugs
        the blood thinners

        and other health issues, such as PPI’s, NSAIDs, etc.

        I’m not a doctor, I’m not a pharmacist – but I see as many people suffering from these drugs, and wonder – after reading Arman Neel Jr’s excellent book “Are your Prescriptions Killing you?” how many people suffer from these issues too.

        Rxisk is seeking to address all of these, and kudos to the team for tackling it!

        I cannot wait to see the Withdrawal Algorythm. It will be a useful tool for Surviving Antidepressants, where a common question is: “Is this Withdrawal or Relapse?”

  4. The best way of getting the message out there is by having every individual go on YouTube and tell their story in regards to how a particular medicine has impacted them.
    When an individual types in a particular medicine, they have the advantage of viewing videos and listening to someone’s story.
    This kind of awareness will support an individual in the decision making process.
    There are many brave souls doing this now and it is proving to be very effective.

  5. Good to read about what’s going on with You Tube at the moment. I am neither a ‘You Tuber’ nor a sufferer – merely the mother of a sufferer, therefore I shall leave the ‘you tubing’ to you sufferers.
    Have just finished reading a marvellous book on autism. It is called ‘ Neuro Tribes:The Legacy of Autism and how to think smarter about people who think differently’ by Steve Silberman. It gives the history of the quest for a better understanding of the condition and brings it all the way to the present day. Well worth reading.
    From this, I can see that blaming mothers for causing any condition that was presented to professionals who didn’t understand/ believe the existence of Autism was commonplace not so long ago. No change there then! Maybe,for autism, in severe cases, that things have changed but not in the overall picture of mental health. Every time that I’ve spoken out to ‘professionals’ about the damage caused by medications, I’ve had the remarks that I should ‘let go’ of my son and let them deal with his problem thrown back at me – in other words, that I am overpowering. I am not overpowering, I am just making sure that the needs of the patient comes ahead of their easy way out which was to add more and more tablets. Thankfully, things are now changing in his case – he is being shown a different way through this mess. My hope is that the ‘professionals’ who used to deal with him will, in time, appreciate that there was another, gentler way of dealing with his problems – and that blaming the mother was unnecessary!

    • I think I must read that book Mary! I have an adult son with Asperger syndrome who is trapped in psychiatry. I too fight the medication battle tooth and nail without much success so far. I’m glad you have won that one. One lesson I learned in the early years was that an ASD child has not read the books on parenting! Instead, my son taught me what kind of mothering he needed, rather than the other way round. I had to follow his lead and his needs. He wasn’t pampered or spoiled materially, but his reactions to stress situations and social exclusion, needed to be dealt with in a calm and rational way. Frequently I am told it’s my fault that my son seems to be ’emotionally dependent’ on me – that I should let go. I won’t do that until I’m sure he is being supported by people who understand his problems and how to handle them. Truth is, in my opinion, those treating / supporting him would dearly love to get irritating, nuisance mother right out the picture.
      And Carla, I’ve done my YouTube thing. I haven’t checked it in a while. It was put on several different channels at was approaching a total of 10,000 views. I hope it helped someone. At that time my son had a psychiatrist who was willing to reduce drugs, but sadly she retired, and nothing happened……..
      https://vimeo.com/22527996

      • Janette, – my thoughts are with you. Keep fighting – when you find a ‘professional’ who puts the needs of your child first, I hope you will also find, as I have, that your input is also appreciated. ‘Care in the Community’ is a three-way plan as I see it – the patient, the carer/parent and the professional. Without equality of input, the system cannot work. We, as parents/carers need to know the plans discussed between professional and patient since we are the ones ‘caring’ in between appointments. If we withdrew our support, the professional and patient would often be unable to carry out their co-ordinated recovery plans.
        As for the book, it really is interesting. I bought it as a Kindle book; had I got it as an actual ‘book’ I would have offered to send it to you. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Happy reading!

  6. Mary, thank you for your kind words.
    I appreciate it!
    The greatest challenge we have on our hands is ‘fighting ignorance’.
    What if big pharma are creating random compromised batches?
    I am very tired of listening to those in positions of power tell me that the response one receives to a particular medicine is dependent on your body type.
    If big pharma delete this kind of information, then we are ‘all doomed’.
    You should not have to wait for your unfortunate fate to come because you were dealt the wrong deck of cards.
    There needs to be transparency and accountability on big pharma’s’ behalf.
    If we, the people, don’t ask these questions when we seek the advice of professionals, then we are allowing this kind of ‘shemozzle’ to carry on.
    Big pharma may have the power now however, the people have the power, also.
    If you ask the clinician the following simple question:
    ‘Do you have all the negative clinical data pertaining to this medicine and he/she replies: Yes! then you know they are not being honest.
    If on the other hand they give you a response like: Sorry, I can only give you the information based on what I know, then you know they are being genuine!
    If we don’t ask the questions, we shall never know.
    At the end of the day, clinicians do not have all the information and so it is up to us to weigh up the pros/cons.
    Clinicians response would most likely be:
    Everything we do in life is a risk! – I totally agree with this obvious response.
    – When you get in a car you may be at risk of being involved in an accident.
    – When you cross the street, you may be run over.
    – When you go on a plane, there might be a small probability that the plane may fall down and crash etc. etc. etc……………………
    However, if , if, if ??????????? big pharma have the information and are not disclosing it, this is a deliberate risk because they have deliberately omitted that kind of information.
    Can you differentiate between accidental risk and deliberate omission?
    Yes, one can be in an accident through no choice and the other can be deliberate and if an individual does not have all the information they are not able to make an informed decision.
    Mary, in regards to how mothers are treated when a child is born with autism, I agree with you totally about how all the blame is put on the mother.
    Imagine dealing with the ‘poor bureaucracy’ compliments of the educational/medical system.
    These two go hand in hand and there is a long way to go before any good comes out of what they are trying to do.
    If you do not jump through every hoop they insist you do for your child, then you are considered a ‘poor parent’.
    They bombard you with so many things you should be doing.
    In the end, you and the child just get lost in the system.
    There has to be a better way, Mary.
    The stigma is solely based on ‘ignorance’ and a sense of chastising those who are not ‘intellectually inclined’.
    Support and a willingness to want to change the current system, is the only way we are going to break the ‘ignorant stereotypical’ blame game.
    A mother and a child need support not ‘eternal condemnation’.
    Every mother wants what every so called ‘normal child’ is privy to.
    The child is not to blame.
    Perhaps, some schools are ‘learning disabled’ because they have forgotten how the other children are ‘hard wired’.
    Mary, if some professionals are ‘ignorant’.
    It is a choice when some professionals decide to not think outside their rigid framework.
    If people like you, did not exist, how on earth can man be in synergy with man.
    Boy oh boy, have we got a long way to go!
    I am proud of you, Mary.
    We need more warriors like you!

  7. Hi Janette,
    It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a mother to come forward and voice her concerns particularly in relation to over prescribing.
    I was deeply moved by this story and felt sad that medicine has not really changed since pre and post war era.
    Creating an awareness in regards to how prescribing a ‘cocktail of medicines’ can really impact the brain, is graciously reinforced by this mothers story and I hope that parents have choices when it comes to vaccinations.
    Slowly but surely, our rights are slowly being taken away from us.
    Labels can either make or break an individual.
    Unfortunately, some educational/medical institutions use these labels for all the wrong reasons.
    Overprescribing is dangerous and if abused in the wrong hands, can easily become a dangerous experience.
    Have we learnt anything form over prescribing?
    Do we see these patterns again and again, of over prescribing, being a major problem and if so why are these unorthodox/unscrupulous/archaic practices still being used, today?
    Wether an individual has a medical label or not, it is clear to me, that anyone could end up in the same situation this poor mothers son did.
    If you speak up on behalf of someone, who is caught up in this unfortunate situation, they make it look like you are over-stepping your boundaries for caring.
    I cant understand why it is so easy for some professionals to abuse their power and over step their boundaries knowing the harm they are causing.
    What kind of a system is this?
    This video should be viewed by all professionals as it gives an accurate account of what can happen if your loved ones end up in the wrong hands.
    Too many professionals think that they can abuse their power and get away with it.
    If you are morally trying to do the right thing, we are considered the abusers : ( but so, so true!
    Thank you for sharing your story.
    I am humbled by your experience.
    It takes a lot of courage to come forward and say it as it really is!

  8. Janette, I have just watched your video (had forgotten to watch it but reminded by Carla’s comments) and I am amazed how similar your story is to ours in many ways.
    In our son’s family ( he’s our foster son) there are siblings and a niece who are on the autistic spectrum and I have suspected that this son also fits somewhere on the spectrum. He had a horrific reaction to the measles jab when, at 14 or 15, he was of the age whereby they immunised countrywide (for whatever reason). At age 22 he had even more horrific reactions to Seroxat. During the last 13 or so years, he has been put on a medley of antipsychotic drugs – at first they seemed to work, then he would plateau and then become quite unwell. That usually warranted one of two things – either an increased dose or a switch to a different drug. It has always been found that a reduced dose will be more beneficial but that is so “unusual” that it was rarely adhered to.
    It is encouraging to see your son looking so happy in the video clips. We are hopeful that our son too will soon be able to smile broadly as he looks back at the horrific journey of his life over the last 13 or 14 years as he leaves the horrors behind him. This dream has only been made possible by finding someone willing to guide him out of the mess which had taken a nightmarish grip of him and us.
    Best wishes for the future to you and your son.

  9. Hi Renny,

    I wrote a comment about three years ago concerning your problem with medication
    and withdrawal. With a help of a lady friend, we cured my oldest sister of
    schizophrenia. She had been diagnosed and was on medication over a ten year
    period before she came to me for help. Get the book, “Mental and Elemental
    Nutrients,” by Dr. Carl Pheiffer. He explains what to do (which supplements to take). The answer to your search is megavitamin therapy. It works. My sister has
    been off all prescription drugs for over 35 years and at the age of 76 is still employed (working 32 hours a week). Ask yourself, could she do that if she was
    still schizophrenic? If you ever hope to get rid of all the nasty withdrawal symptoms
    this will accomplish the task. My sister is living proof. There are doctors here in
    the U.K. who work with nutritional therapy. Check with the BioMed Centre in
    London to find out who can help you. The Hale Clinic is another option.

    Best Wishes,
    Larry

  10. Dear Larry,
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but what makes you think that megavitamins, supplements or any other ‘so called natural lotions/potions’, are any better?
    As far as I am concerned, just because something claims to be natural or organic, it does not mean that people will not be harmed?
    Every person is different and every case should be treated accordingly?
    I am happy your sister has been cured however, we have to be very careful when recommending any kind of alternative to anyone.
    Natural, in my opinion is the best recommendation to healing any disease.
    Anything that comes from a health food shop is not necessarily ‘harm proof’.
    I can recall, a long time ago, this poor woman took a natural herbal product, from the health food shop and ended up becoming blind.
    It makes me wonder, if all these products that are sold in health food shops, go through vigorous, stringent testing?
    It is not dependant on someone’s physique.
    I question the INTEGRITY of many products.

    • Carla,

      In response to your comment, naturally you have to know your sources. I question everything. To make something work, you need to use vitamins that are derived from food based sources. There is a difference between synthetically derived vitamins and minerals versus food based supplements. Yes, health food stores sell both. It is
      your responsibility to know the difference and if you don’t, find someone who does know. Linus Pauling (Nobel Peace Prize for
      Medicine) was an advocate of megavitamin therapy. He was wrongly
      discredited because the medical establishment didn’t want people to
      find out the truth. I know it works because it worked for me personally
      and it also saved my sister from drug withdrawal misery. It is your
      choice to either criticize something you don’t understand or try something that just might give you what you have been looking for.

  11. Larry,when I was very ill, I was given ‘so called’ natural alternatives.
    They made me worse.
    Despite the products that were given to me and claimed to be safe to be ingested by babies, these so called natural supplements made me worse.
    Criticizing is not on my agenda.
    All I am trying to say is not ‘one size glove fits all’.
    We have to be very careful especially if an individual is so chemically intoxicated.
    Natural foods helped me get over a big hurdle in my life.
    What works best for someone else may be another persons foe.

  12. I also forgot to mention that anyone can research until the ‘cows come home’.
    No one knows how these supplements or multi vitamins interact with other synthetic medicines.
    From my experience, natural is best and one cannot always find the answers in a capsule/powder that is ‘deemed safe’ even if it is claimed to be natural and derived from plant sources.
    Natural does not always come in the form of powders and capsules.
    You do not have to do research if something is natural.
    When a food is natural, you know that it will not harm you.
    Yes, I did do my research and yes I thought that all the natural substances given to me were safe but unfortunately, they did more harm than good made my brain very foggy. Not a very good result. Stopped immediately and started to regain myself again.
    Everyone does have to be careful with ‘so called’ natural alternatives.
    Just go out in nature and see the beauty of what mother earth has provided for us.
    We can learn from so many cultures on how to thrive and survive.
    We have to always be mindful about what we recommend.
    My best teacher has been my best experience and I had to go through so much ‘trial and error’ and my best advice to anyone is:
    You can never go wrong with raw natural vegetables and fruits- the way mother nature intended us to thrive and survive

  13. Dear JanCarol,
    Thank you for sympathising with my story.
    This is where we get our ’30 seconds of acknowledgement’.
    Unfortunately, the majority will never understand what we are trying to convey, unless they wrestle or are faced with the challenges of a negative experience with medicines, themselves.
    Yesterday, on ABC radio, I heard what a professor in behavioural scientist had to say about vaccines.
    She was very biased and only focused on the benefits of vaccines, although she did conclude that a few may suffer from adverse effects from vaccines and that there needs to be compensation claims for people that have suffered harm.
    If they are so beneficial they would not be harming people?
    In my opinion this is one person, too many.
    Does she know what are in these vaccines?
    She or I will never know how many are flawed?
    Interesting to note: She was highlighting that history tells us that many people have been talking about the very same issues we discuss today.
    If there is a ‘common thread’ going on, there must be some substance and validity with our experiences.
    We don’t have all the statistics of how many innocent people are maimed or died.
    Perhaps, she should sit down with ‘us’ people and have an honest/healthy discussion/debate, with people who have been impacted by ‘so called’ – safe vaccines and medicines.
    I am certain that her behaviour and perception of vaccines/medicines, would dramatically change, if she were impacted by these ‘so called’ safe medicines.
    She went on to say that many sites are toxic and that too many people are influenced by what they read/hear.
    Perhaps, these ‘so called’ toxic sites can shed some awareness and insight into a problem that is hidden from society.
    People, have the right to have their own personal opinions/beliefs/values, regarding this very topic.
    You cannot force to vaccinate the entire population if they feel that something is unsafe.
    Perhaps, 8% of the population, are smarter than the average person.
    We have been ‘brainwashed’ since we were born and when one has an unpleasant experience, your mindset alters.
    The media is also to blame with half-truth stories.
    Perhaps, the ones who have a story to tell, know what the ‘truth of matters’ are all about.
    The rose tainted glasses, that came off me a long time ago, helps me to understand the complexities at hand.
    All I know, once the blood brain barrier is damaged, it is one hell of a journey to go through. Your life will never be the same.
    Instead of patronising, labelling, threatening or being critical, sit down and talk with those who have been ‘ridiculed/mocked’ for way too long.
    Compassion for all beings, going through a journey where medicines change their lifestyle, is what individuals are waiting for.
    There are always two sides to a story. It is never black/white.
    Sometimes, I am very persuasive and bring on the ‘heavy talk’ when an individual is defiant or hesitant.
    I always ask them:
    ‘You are more than welcome to ingest a tablet out of the batch my husband and I took’.
    The reply is: Always, of course, a DEFIANT NO!
    This gets the cogs turning for some who give me a hard time.
    JanCarol, we do have the power.
    Some underestimate us.
    I don’t get ‘walked all over’, all the time.
    Its not until you pose a question to them, that the defences and barriers do start to break down and they start to listen.
    ‘These cocktails that clinicians put patients on, are they really necessary?’
    I wish I had someone to back me up every time I tried to do something good.
    I wish I had:
    – A great barrister who would defend me
    – A wise clinician who understood the dilemmas of big pharmas unscrupulous behaviour
    – A judge who would tip the scales of balance in my favour so that everyone could benefit from a worthy cause.
    A wish that I sometimes dream of …………………………………………………. : )

  14. Carla,

    I sent a reply to your last comment but it was not posted because the moderator
    obviously decided to exclude it. Read the book that I suggested previously. It
    will answer your questions and clear up the confusion you are experiencing concerning drug withdrawal.

    • It is the case that a comment was not posted. There is a tricky balance between posting things and not. The comment didn’t appear to add anything to the debate. It re-iterated that detoxification is the way to go – its not. There are so many people suffering so badly from antidepressant withdrawal despite trying everything including detoxification that selling any idea that there is an easy answer to this problem is risky. There may be some people who have had relatively mild withdrawal problems who recovered while they were detoxifying – whatever this is – and who attribute the response to detoxification. There may be some who might be helped by a myth about detoxification that keeps them going through the pain barrier. But there is no good evidence that detoxification is the answer for the many problems that may endure months of years after treatment has stopped. Encouraging people down a path that may in its own right be risky without knowing the basis for the treatment or the likelihood of benefit is something to do with caution in anyone but particularly in the case of anyone who vulnerable because of their ongoing difficulties.

      DH

  15. David Healy is absolutely right when he suggests that we should be very careful when trying to suggest ‘so called natural’ alternatives to people.
    Some professionals are keen to help however, they may be doing more harm than good.
    It took me a long time to work out what worked best for me.
    A long, long time……………………………. : (
    Even today, I am still left with residual problems and I avoid a lot of ‘so called natural alternatives’ because they just don’t agree with me. This is life.
    It can be risky, Larry and people may be venturing into unknown territory which may lead to further problems.
    I believe David Healy knows where many of us are coming from.

  16. Dr. Healy & Carla,

    Perhaps I didn’t word my response properly. I certainly agree with you that
    detoxification is not the only answer concerning drug withdrawal side effects.
    One thing is certain is that the immune system is compromised. It is important to
    address this issue as well as the detoxification. Unless the immune system can
    respond to any supplements that are given, then it is a waste of time and money
    to consume any vitamin and mineral supplements. That is why (initially) it is important to have a qualified physician and/or healthcare professional administer
    the vitamins and minerals by means of injection and/or a vitamin drip via the
    arteries or veins. The high doses of niacin and vitamin C are necessary because the
    drug infected human body is not capable of utilizing these supplements in lower
    doses to derive the benefit needed. When my sister was being treated for her
    withdrawal, she was having the drips several times a week along with the oral doses
    of vitamins and minerals. You are correct that it is not a simple solution. It isn’t
    possible for anyone to do this on their own. You need moral support and professional
    help as well. People have benefited from megavitamin therapy. I speak from personal experience since I consumed megavitamins and minerals from the age of 26 to 58 and a half. Now, as I approach the age of 72, I am thankful that I had someone in my life to show me the truth about what works and why it does.

    • Larry

      I am a doctor who has been involved in research for 35 years. I have no idea what detoxification means. There are some conditions where chelation is given as in Lead poisoning but a move like this can be fatal. Detoxification sounds nice and natural but i suspect it is largely a way for some unscrupulous people to take money off others who are in a vulnerable position. Please enlighten me if there is something I’m missing.

      David

  17. Dr. Healy,

    I appreciate your interest in detoxification. Yes, I am familiar with chelation therapy. I don’t have any personal experience with this method myself. As you know, the liver is the main detoxification organ in the body. It produces glutathione which is the primary body detoxifier. There are glutathione supplements that are for sale and they are virtually useless because they lose any effectiveness by the time they reach the gut. Glutathione suppositories are being used to boost an individual’s ability to detoxify the body. A doctor in Florida (glutagenic.com) has been able to successfully treat patients using this method. There was a study done concerning people with Parkinson’s Disease in which the feces of 75 people was examined in people that had the disorder and 75 people who didn’t have the disease (were normal). It was discovered that every Parkinson’s patient had pathogenic bacteria in their feces and there was no pathogenic bacteria in the other 75 individuals (normal). This is just one example of another method of detoxification. These suppositories are available here in the U.K. as I recently ordered and received some for my wife who has Parkinson’s Disease. There are other proven methods of detoxification as well but I won’t go into that at this time.

    • L

      I have never seen a study that proves detoxification. Claims yes, proves no. If chelation is not detoxification what is detoxification – it seems to be a moveable feast – whatever someone wants it to mean

      D

  18. D.

    The proof is in the results. If you haven’t personally tried any of these methods then
    how can you know they don’t work?

    L.

    • L
      Do you think if these methods worked we would have tons of people on these pages suffering the agonies they do. Do you think if these methods work, GSK would have shelled out millions for withdrawal problems? If they had been able to tell the court – hey its simple just detoxify and you’ll be okay. There are tons of things that work but don’t work – this is why we have placebo controls in studies.

      D

      • L

        Do you have any evidence that I trust the pharmaceutical industry? Why should i trust megavitamins any more? There are people on both sides making money out of distress. All i hear are claims – try our approach – but there is a lack of benefit. You can help settle this by suggesting what people with PSSD who post here a lot should do taking your approach. If it works – great. If not perhaps you might consider indicating megavitamins are not the answer to everything

        D

  19. D.,

    Unlike you, I don’t trust the pharmaceutical industry. The bottom line is always money. Do you think they are going to give up the gravy train that exists for them? If I would have listened to the consultant that told me my sister would have to live with schizophrenia for the rest of her life, she would not be alive today and be a productive human being. The medical industry is controlled by the pharmaceutical industry because they provide money towards their budget and a lot of cash incentives for certain services. Do you think that doctor in Florida would still be in business if he was a fraud and wasn’t producing some positive results? The pharmaceutical industry provides 60% of the operating budget of the Food and Drug Administration in the USA . How can the FDA be unbiased and not be accommodating to the pharmaceutical industry? That same situation exists here in the U.K. Ask yourself who is conducting these studies? Most of it is done by the pharmaceutical industry. They keep the results under lock and key. Do you think they are going to report any negative results that keep their drug off the market? Look how many times various drugs are taken off the market after so many people have died. It is no longer possible to hide the results. Then the drugs that are removed are taken and sold to third world countries. How can that be justified? The bottom line is always money, not people’s health. Unless an individual takes responsibility for his or her own health, this situation will continue to exist. People need to wake up and be pro-active. Detoxify and megavitamin
    therapy is the answer. Linus Pauling (Nobel Peace Prize for Medicine) advocated this approach and he was correct.

    L.

  20. D.,

    I do agree with you that there are con artists on both sides. That is the great tragedy for vulnerable people who are ill and desperately looking for a solution to PSSD. I have spent a lifetime looking for solutions to health problems. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. If you spent your whole life not trusting anyone, you would never find any solutions. I trusted a women who had medical school training and an intense knowledge of nutrition. She saved my sister’s life by introducing us to Dr. Carl Pheiffer and his book “Mental and Elemental Nutrients.” I personally believe that a doctor who has an intense knowledge of nutrition along with medical school training is a better option than a doctor who only has a basic knowledge of nutrition and medical school training. That is why, in my earlier entry, I suggested contacting the Bio Medical Centre in London. They have a list of doctors around the U.K. who use nutritional testing along with their medical experience to find solutions to health problems. The Hale Clinic is another option . You can bet that the pharmaceutical industry won’t suggest that
    you use any of these options. There are qualified people in the U.K. who are there to help people with PSSD.

    L.

    • L

      I know no-one with PSSD that has been helped by them. If there is a cure for PSSD, there is an absolute onus for them to let the world know about this rather than try to milk it for money

      D

  21. Hi Larry,
    Very interesting discussion.
    If I don’t have the proof or evidence about something, sorry, my opinion ~ it is not worth the risk.
    Even if someone prominent has won the Nobel peace prize in medicine, it means absolutely nothing to me.
    Like I said: not ‘one size glove fits’ all, as there are always going to be variables to someone’s medical history.
    Many are trying to make a quick dime out of healing the sick
    Just because it benefits a handful of people, it does not necessarily mean that everyone else is going to benefit from this therapy. I am just being realistic!

    If we are positive and nourish our minds with positive thinking, I believe that this kind of thinking has the ability to heal on a cellular level.
    I know this to be true because when I was very sick I use to say to myself that I am going to get out of this conundrum that big pharma put me in.

    I had to slowly get myself out of a chemical waste dump I had plunged into.
    I had no control over what the drug did to me however, I had control over my mind.
    If I wanted to heal the best way I knew, I had to nourish my mind, body and spirit.
    I had to work quick and fast, too better understand how to get out of the toxic mess that I was in.
    Nutrition, exercise, positive thinking, drinking plenty of unadulterated water, believe it or not, saved my life.
    It took time.
    It was not instantaneous.
    It was baby steps until I got down to the bottom of what had happened?
    Every case is different and every individual responds differently to a recommendation.
    This is why every professional has to listen to a patient when they are suffering.
    Giving a ‘so called’ natural alternative to someone who has been impacted by medicines, could cause more harm.
    Many tests are not black/white.
    There are many shades of grey that will never show up on a particular test.
    Some tests, unfortunately, carry risks, especially if they are invasive.
    Eventually, given time, the individual concerned, if they follow their ‘gut instincts’, will always listen to their body and know what is best for them.
    ‘What can a doctor do that a patient cannot do?’
    We have forgotten that we also have the healing within and we have also forgotten to trust ourselves.
    Instead, many, like myself, rely on artificial synthetic means to bring us back to life or better still cause unnecessary death.

    If someone has a cocktail of synthetic chemicals in their body imagine what ‘so called’ natural products can do?
    I should know because I was dished out so many bio-medical natural alternatives and boy oh boy did they make my condition worse! : (
    I am still left with residual symptoms and yes, I do have my days where I get really upset but then I pinch myself back to reality and realise that there are other people worse off than me.
    Usually, the individual concerned, if they look deep within, have all the answers.
    I don’t look for answers from anyone, anymore.

    Big Pharma will be held accountable, one day.
    People will begin to make that connection and this process of ‘TRUTH’ is slowly beginning to diffuse into people’s consciousness.

    Caveat: There is always going to be an element of risk in everything we do in life but if the information is not all out there, even if it is claimed to be safe, my advice to everyone is: Don’t take the risk!
    I agree with David Healy.
    I don’t trust Big Pharma and I don’t certainly don’t trust anyone who makes false promises.
    If someone really wants to heal someone, the advice should be genuine, sincere and for free.
    It should not come in a lotion, potion or other means that generates mega bucks!

  22. D.,

    I disagree with you. People are not willing to put their lives at risk by doing what you suggest. Within the last year at least ten alternative doctors have been murdered because they tried to inform the general public of their findings. You underestimate the power of the pharmaceutical industry and the medical establishment hierarchy. Many years ago, John D. Rockefeller cornered the market on pharmaceutical drugs and I don’t have to tell you that he was one of the richest men in the world at that time. Do you think that people like him are going to let anyone stop the gravy train?

    L.

  23. Larry,
    David is entitled to his opinion.
    There must be a legitimate reason for his reasoning/logic.
    You have stated your case and he has stated his.
    Please let it go.
    I think the poor man has enough to deal with, as it is.
    Praise David for doing an exceptional job.
    It takes a lot of courage to do what he is doing.

  24. D.,

    My apologies to you for anything that I said which may have been rude or unkind.
    It is difficult not to get emotional when one feels so strongly about their own beliefs.
    There will never be a universal agreement on any one thing and sometimes it is impossible to compromise on certain issues. People do have to make decisions for themselves since life is a learning experience for all of us.

    L.

  25. Thank you for your kind apology.
    Every living being has their cross to bear.
    Some lessons are unnecessary.
    We are still paying for the mistakes of the past.
    Universal agreement is to: DO NO HARM.
    When man gets this RIGHT we are all onto something GOOD.
    I get emotional when someone tries to help and it may not do them any good.
    Many are suffering and need words of encouragement.
    They have most likely exhausted everything and appreciate that their fate is what it is ~ They are doing their best.
    Everyone has lessons to learn.
    Some have heavy lessons that are there to help others.
    Good luck Larry.

  26. As far as I am concerned, everyone has to start demanding for all the information that is suppressed regarding any given medicine.
    Change begins with us.
    If every person told their government that Laws should be put in place making it mandatory that all pharmaceutical companies disclose all their information, pertaining to all medicines, you would see that CHANGE would come about.
    An industries IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOUR, can be CHANGED.
    We as consumers, have the POWER to CHANGE things.
    Are we READY for that change?
    The medical hierarchy establishment, is not working, anymore.
    What kind of an establishment is this if innocent people are being maimed and dying.
    The system has been broken for a long time and it no longer serves the people especially if UNSCRUPOLOUS behaviour is involved.
    We can make our medicines safer.
    One person can create CHANGES if everyone supports a worthy cause.
    What benefits one, benefits everyone.
    Carla Bataljin

  27. I need to find a doctor who can help me with my ssri withdrawal syndrome any help? I am reinstating the drug but still have symptoms of withdrawal I live in Columbus Ohio

  28. Hi Fredricka,

    I hope you find someone who will genuinely listen and help you.
    WHERE DOES IT STATE:
    That if an individual chooses to come off these drugs, that the patient concerned could suffer from withdrawal symptoms.
    Someone educate me because I have not seen this warning on antidepressants.
    Unfortunately, the pharmaceutical companies have neglected to put this kind of warning on their antidepressants and have failed to warn patients how to wean themselves off these poisons.
    Do you cut the tablet in half, quarters or thirds????
    If so, do the drug companies state to clinicians or patients how to taper/withdrawal off these poisons, safely.
    There is no mention of how to taper or any other advice, of this nature that could benefit the consumer.
    If this is a critical problem, why isn’t anyone telling the consumer of these potential withdrawal risks.
    I hope someone can give you genuine/sincere advice.
    It must be hell for those who come off these poisons, cold turkey.

  29. Let me remind the pharmaceutical companies that they have also neglected to inform the people by not placing a warning on these poisons that they can induce suicide in patients above 18 years of age.
    They have once again failed in their duty to inform the public of the risks and the potential addictive effects of these powerful drugs.
    You cannot discriminate on age ,that these poisons only cause SUICIDE below 18 years of age.
    Another warning that needs to be changed.
    Consumers are being misled.

  30. All professionals concerned, please do not tell patients that when they are having withdrawal symptoms that it is:
    – the depression coming back or
    – they are suffering from another psychosis and therefore, you need to put them on another med or
    – tell them that the med does not agree with you so therefore we have to try another one.
    I hope BIG PHARMA is not telling you this and you believe them.
    Surely, through clinical trials you can see these same patterns emerging from one patient to another.
    It is doing more harm than good.
    Patients can become violent, aggressive or suicidal.
    Even whilst patient is trying to withdrawal they can experience these horrendous symptoms.
    Please be patient with people who are going through unforgivable withdrawal symptoms and try to understand that it is the poison not the patients ‘true mental state’.
    These poisons give the poor people some type of psychosis which makes them look that they are mentally unstable.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong………………………………………!
    It is the meds giving these poor patients all these miserable, horrendous, debilitating symptoms.
    The drug manufacturers have failed to warn the consumers about this.
    Once you are on the mouse wheel it is hard for the poor patients to get off.
    It make take up to two years for these horrible withdrawal symptoms to dissipate.
    Listen to the patients.
    They know how they felt before they ingested these poisons and they know how they feel when they try to get off them.
    Imagine being prescribed these poisons for menopause, gut infections, ear aches etc. etc. etc………..!
    The patient can tell you they never felt mentally unstable until they ingested these poisons.
    Some are on these meds and have this:
    ‘ I don’t give a damn’ mentality’.
    When some of us have this mentality, we go through life having no true idea of what these meds are really doing!
    If a patient insists on meds, please welcome them to come to RXISK.
    When they are better informed, they can then make a better informed decision before they embark on the antidepressant journey.
    There are safer alternatives.
    Meds are not the ‘be it – end all’ of a person’s mental health.
    Helping people to become more resilient by adding safer alternatives to their depression tool box, will hopefully be a better outcome for all concerned.
    Teaching people resiliency and how to cope when things go wrong, will be far more rewarding than popping a pill when someone is going through a crisis.
    Some people are still depressed when they take meds and this does not make sense, either.
    When depressed people feel empowered they will appreciate that there is more to life than RXISKING it all with a ‘happy pill”.

  31. I’m lost with the new format but I’ll post anyway. My docs can’t figure out why medication (SSRI, TRIPTAN, OPIOD, PHENERGAN) Withdrawal is still affecting me with tremors (better than before), eye problems, gluten intolerance, food sensitivities, increased OCD. They are starting to wave the somatoform disorder red flag, which I readily refute. 30 years of these drugs definitely don’t just go away in 20 months. I believe because they need a label they are resorting to this tactic. I’m not stupid and will stand my ground come what may. Some support is always helpful but I’m not sure I’ll get it.

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