Editorial Note: The post is by David Carmichael, who has coined the terms “Prescripticide” for a death that is caused by an adverse reaction to a prescription drug.
In October and November 2015, Julie Wood published a 5-part RxISK.org series of blog posts about SSRI antidepressants and violence. It was based on the biomedical model developed to explain how someone can experience antidepressant-induced akathisia, emotional blunting and delirium-psychosis that can lead to violence, including suicide and homicide – explained in Part 3 of Julie Wood’s series.
What I experienced in 2004 is well aligned with this biomedical model, and I believe it may be very important for people to know my story. So I am writing this blog post, in detail, for the first time, about my own Paxil-induced homicide.
In late November, I talked about Ms. Wood’s posts with American filmmaker and news correspondent Charles Tudor in Virginia Beach. I was meeting with Charles and Anelia Sutton, the mother of a young woman named Lorita Aiken who attempted to take the life of her 2 children and herself in November 2013 in a state of delirium-psychosis 15 days after starting the SSRI Celexa while she was already on Wellbutrin, Ativan and Ambien. In June 2015, Lorita was found not guilty of the attempted murders by reason of insanity and sent to Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Virginia.
When I was meeting with Charles and Anelia, I told Charles that adverse reactions to SSRIs are causing people to commit suicide and homicide, and, in fact, adverse reactions to prescription drugs are the 4th leading cause of death in Canada after cancer, heart disease and stroke. He asked me to come up with a word, just a single word, to explain what is happening. The word I came up with was “prescripticide.”
On July 31, 2004, in Canada, my 11-year-old son Ian died from prescripticide. Over a 3-week period, I changed completely from being a loving, caring and nurturing father of 2 beautiful children to taking the life of my beloved son Ian, in a calm, organized state of delirium-psychosis. I was charged with first degree murder. It all started with what I now describe as my nervous breakdown in early July.
Week 1
At the beginning of July 2004, I was sleep deprived and exhausted from contract work, particularly from my job as director of a Toronto summer day camp. With no real warning, I started shaking in the shower. Soon after, I broke down in a nervous system collapse. I had little energy, couldn’t eat and was having serious difficulty concentrating. I had a full prescription of Paxil from a similar experience a year before, diagnosed by my family doctor as depression, which I had stopped taking a few months earlier.
So on July 8, I put myself back on 40mg a day. That was the beginning of the end of Ian’s life, and to the end of our family as we knew it.
Almost immediately after starting to take Paxil again, I became agitated and irritated. I remember having to get up and walk because I couldn’t sit still without my legs trembling. I started feeling anxious and incredibly negative thoughts began to race through my mind – which I didn’t have before I started Paxil. I didn’t realize I was experiencing akathisia, a side-effect of Paxil. I thought my depression was getting worse.
I put a mattress on the floor of my home office in the basement. I could hardly get out of bed to shower in the morning and was pacing the floor in the middle of the night because of the anxiety. The pacing did nothing to calm me down. In fact, my anxiety, agitation and level of irritation grew worse.
Although I was able to stay away from the summer camp for a few days, I decided to go to work again the next week. By the middle of the week, I was thinking seriously about committing suicide while I was watching children play in the gym.
The suicidal thoughts became intense. I went from thinking about it to looking for a place where I could commit suicide. There were climbing ropes behind the curtains in the gym. I thought it might be possible for me to hang myself from a rope without anyone knowing.
I knew there was something wrong with my thinking, but I assumed that it was because my depression was getting worse. On July 16, my 46th birthday, I increased my daily dosage of Paxil from 40 to 60mg to try and help myself. I knew my family doctor had prescribed that dose to other patients, and the 60 mg dose was listed as the maximum recommended dosage in the Guide to Drugs in Canada, published by the Canadian Pharmacists Association.
I believed that taking the maximum dosage would help me recover more quickly, just like taking 2 aspirin instead of 1 to get rid of a headache.
Week 2
My akathisia got worse over the July 17-18 weekend, but by Monday things seemed to be settling down. I was feeling a little less shaky and more energetic, but tragically, my suicidal thoughts, which got more intense after increasing the dosage of Paxil to 60mg, now seemed perfectly logical to me.
When I got out of bed on Monday morning, I decided that this was going to be the day that I would end my life. I put my plan together in the shower. I was going to leave home, drive to a family friend’s house where I thought the garage would be empty, drive my car into the garage, attach a garden hose to the exhaust pipe of my car with duct tape, put the other end of the hose through my car window and seal it with duct tape, and then sit inside my running car until it was over.
I wasn’t anxious while I was planning my suicide. I was looking forward to the outcome as relief. My distorted mind was thinking that my family would be better off without me. I knew that it would surprise my wife Elizabeth, daughter Gillian and Ian but, unbelievably, I was not worried about them or their future – something completely and incredibly uncharacteristic of me.
I put a hose and duct tape inside my car, drove to the house and waited on the road, but our family friend’s vehicle didn’t leave the garage. My plan was ruined and I couldn’t think of another place where I could discreetly run a hose into my car because if I was going to commit suicide, I didn’t want to fail. So I went home, put the hose and duct tape away and went back into my basement office, which had become my bedroom.
For the next few days, I was able to get into a routine. I would get up, shower, get dressed and go to the day camp I was directing for part of the day. My behavior was probably seen by the camp staff as returning to normal. I was able to function again, physically. But my mind was getting even more distorted and I stopped caring and worrying about things in my life. I became unemotional.
By the end of the week, my mind was filled with distorted thoughts that made sense to me. I hardly needed to sleep so my mind kept racing. I had talked with Ian a few times during the week and decided that instead of just me committing suicide, I should take Ian’s life as well because of the incredibly difficult time which I perceived he was going through.
Of course, this wasn’t true. Several months earlier, Ian was diagnosed with mild epilepsy and he had a minor learning disability. Both of these things were of little concern to me until I started becoming delirious and psychotic on Paxil. Ian was a late developing child but was very successful at things that he enjoyed, particularly riding his BMX bike. But in my delusional mind, I believed Ian was in living hell because he used to get teased every so often by other children and I thought he had permanent brain damage because of his epilepsy. So I planned my own death and my son’s.
Week 3
My plan was that at our family cottage on the weekend of July 24-25, I was going to take Ian out in our small boat, tie a rope around both of us with the anchor attached and throw it overboard, drowning us. Gillian was at a residential summer camp so all I had to do was wait for Elizabeth to go for a run. On Sunday morning, while Elizabeth was running, I asked Ian to put on his bathing suit so we could go for a boat ride and I went to get my bathing suit on. It was not in my bag. I had forgotten to pack it. Instead of putting on a pair of shorts, my mind darkened and I began to think that my missing bathing suit was a message to me from God that I was not supposed to die, that only Ian was supposed to die.
My delusions became even more intense over the next few days and at the same time my outward behavior was returning to normal. I was calm and began to be able to communicate effectively with people again. But in my mind I was now on a mission from God to put Ian in a better place, heaven.
When I returned to camp on Monday, I could hardly think about anything other than Ian. He was a camper this week so I watched his behavior closely. I saw him playing rough with a few other boys in the gym that morning so I removed him from the camp and we spent Monday afternoon together.
We talked for almost 2 hours in our van in a mall parking lot, mostly about how he was feeling about himself. Even though I now look back at several of his comments as those of a normal fun loving child, I became obsessed with a few sad things that he shared with me. By Monday evening, I was even more convinced in my delusional mind that Ian would be better off in heaven because he was in living hell, that he had permanent brain damage, he was going to kill Gillian, he was going to cause Elizabeth to have a nervous breakdown, and he was going to hurt other children. I started building my plan to end Ian’s life.
I decided that the best way for me to take Ian’s life was to poison him, so I calmly started planning a trip to a popular indoor BMX park close to London, Ontario for Saturday. I thought that I could poison him and he would die in his sleep. So on July 27, I purchased a box of over-the-counter sleeping medication from a local drug store, went home and poured the liquid from each capsule into a vial.
On July 28, I dropped into camp but spent most of the day at home. I researched, again calmly, how much time I would be spending in prison for first degree murder and what prison life was going to be like. I wasn’t worried. I knew, in my wildly distorted thinking, that taking Ian’s life was the right thing to do and that God didn’t want me to die with him.
When Ian got home from camp on July 30, I told him about our trip to the indoor BMX park on Saturday and asked him to pack his bag. He was very excited. We were going to the same hotel in London that we had stayed at before. When our bags were packed and in the van, Elizabeth said goodbye. I told Ian to tell his mom that he loved her. He did, and Elizabeth said it back. And then I calmly drove off.
My behavior had returned to normal. I was calm and Elizabeth would have had no reason to be concerned without knowing what I was thinking and planning, which I didn’t share with her. In my delusional state, I was convinced that I was saving Ian from living hell, saving Gillian and Elizabeth and saving other children. I thought I was protecting them and as a loving father who did the right thing, I would sacrifice my life by spending the next 25 years in prison.
We checked into the hotel around 8pm. After we settled in, we ordered room service. Since I thought of this as Ian’s Last Supper, in a biblical sense, we had his favorite foods. After dinner, I ordered a movie that he really liked. Just after 10pm, I poured the vial of sleeping medication into a glass of orange juice, along with Ian’s epilepsy medication, and he drank it.
The sleeping medication didn’t put Ian to sleep. He started to visually hallucinate. After the movie was over, we watched television and Ian kept talking about seeing things. We were both wide awake and bouncing from bed to bed, laughing and talking about his hallucinations until close to 3am when, in a calm, psychotic state, I strangled my only son.
I moved Ian’s lifeless body to the center of the bed, put his hands across his chest, kissed him on the lips and told him that “I love you, I’m really going to miss you, but you’re in a better place now.”
I turned on the television in the sitting area and watched it with no emotion for almost 6 hours. After showering, packing up our bags and putting them into the van, I calmly called 911 at 9am and told the dispatcher I was reporting a homicide. I was arrested and charged with first degree murder.
It wasn’t until 2 weeks later, when I was on suicide watch in jail and had been off Paxil since my arrest that I began to clearly understand what had happened – the reality of my son’s loss of life. As I became less psychotic and no longer emotionally blunted, I cried uncontrollably, unable to stop for three days, knowing that Ian was gone forever and our family was destroyed. The tears and pain are still with me, and will be forever.
Kristina Kaiser Gehrki says
It demonstrates great courage to share adverse drug reactions as tragic as Mr. Carmichael’s poisoning by Paxil. His experiences can help others better understand prescripticide. For decades, pharmaceutical companies have gotten away with murder by hiding real data that would protect lives instead of ending lives. Prescripticide has many victims—from the unsuspecting consumer of the pharmaceutical product—to family and friends whose lives are destroyed by drug-induced behaviors.
I hope this article helps reduce the undeserved shame and blame typically felt by families impacted by prescripticide. The responsibility for drug-induced “homicide” and “suicide” lies with the product manufacturers and those doctors who irresponsibly prescribe without providing informed consent. Few consumers would ever take a SSRI drug if they knew the real and grave risks often come with little, if any, therapeutic benefit.
Leah Rosevear says
He has only himself to blame. He self prescribed a high dose to start 40mg (he should have started on 10mg with anxiety present as well) and then increased it to 60mg; without consulting a doctor or pharmacist at all during this time. He should have seen his Dr before he took anything! Paroxetine is a perfectly good medicine for the right person with the right indication and in the right dose.
Mr Carmichael gets no sympathy from me; he thought himself above the professional people. He would have to be reasonably intelligent to look up the maximum dose anyway; where there would have been other information such as indication, starting dose, adverse reactions.
He should have received life imprisonment. Everyone blames the pharmaceutical companies. They make life saving medication. Paroxetine has been around a long time so if it had a known serious adverse reaction at a normal dose it would have been withdrawn from the market years ago; as occurs with other medications.
Karl says
Are you having a laugh ? To the poster above paroxetine is a perfectly good medicine are you for real I can assure you it isn’t you might feel that way when your on it initially numbed and sucked in by the spill that’s spouted by the prescriber like I was. I was given this drug as a young 20 year old for a short 6 month course I was hooked for 13 years and told it was none addictive and told it was the equivalent off taking insulin for diabetes I trusted my doctor at a vulnerable time. As for informed consent no chance in 1998. This drug has destroyed me mentally and physically and thousands off others and I’m four years off and still having debilitating symptoms daily after stoping your good medicine paroxetine aka Seroxat.I really don’t think you grasp the reality off how dangerous this stuff is and other ssris psychiatric medications.The thoughts and things I’ve seen in my head since stopping this drug are the thing off nightmares that haven’t ended I could see how it could easily push someone over the edge. I never had any off this prior and the physical torture if I had to describe it as feeling like you’ve been poisoned its that bad my nervous system is shot with spasms contractions in esophegus stomach daily it’s terrifying how I am still alive I don’t know this all started a week after quitting and has got worse.
I totally believe this story by David Carmichael and my heart goes out to him and hope that he has found some peace by knowing this wasn’t his fault but an adverse reaction to the drug.I wish him the best for raising awareness by turning his situation around as bad as it was and getting the message out there by telling people his story I think it will save lives by making people think twice before they pop one off these so called safe tablets there given.
Kristina Kaiser Gehrki says
Leah, your response lacks accuracy and understanding. The fact is that any particular drug can be a medication for some consumers and poison for other consumers. As a compassionate person, I’m worried about you and your loved ones when I read that you believe drugs that have serious side effects “would have been withdrawn from the market years ago.” Please be a more conscientious and careful consumer.
My nineteen-year-old daughter was prescribed a “therapeutic dose” of Zoloft, over the phone by her doctor, without ever seeing my child. The result of following her doctor’s advice was my teen’s prescription-drug induced death two days later. The doctor never saw my child because, like many doctors, she believed changing a SSRI dose carried no risk. Perhaps the marketing rep who visits her office to sell the drugs told her there was no risk? I’ll never know.
What I do know is that consulting your doctor and following his/her prescribing advice can cause harm or death. Those who believe otherwise, might be making a serious mistake. My daughter’s grave site shows how serious such a mistake can be.
You state “paroxetine is a perfectly good medicine for the right person with the right indication and in the right dose.” My daughter’s doctor believed the same thing about Zoloft. What a pity my teenager simply “wasn’t the right person” for the drug.
Kristina Kaiser Gehrki says
Sorry, Leah, I forgot to point out something important you chose to overlook: Ian Carmichael died of prescripticide in 2004, back when few consumers and doctors knew of the serious adverse drug reactions all SSRIs pose. The people who did know–mainly employees of the pharmaceutical companies who make and sell the product–did a successful job of burying the risks while families buried their loved ones. Further, it appears that 60 mg was considered a therapeutic dose. Perhaps you don’t know of all the cases where pharmaceutical companies settled out of court with families whose loved ones were killed as a result of product consumption. Or perhaps you don’t want to know? I can understand the head-in the-sand mentality, as it surely is frightening for any reasonable person to realize that their doctor might be killing them.
annie says
Kristina
I wish I could restore your daughter to you.
I wish I could restore Ian to David Carmichael.
I sincerely hope that you realise how magnificent you both are in realising that not only might any doctor be guilty of killing their patient, and, walking free, but, in the Case of Paroxetine, GlaxoSmithKline paid the price in the USA and then deliberately allowed us, UK Citizens to swallow it.
We have found them out since the Seroxat Launch which must make this one of the sickest and most corrupt UK Product Launches in the lifetime of Sir Andrew Witty, et al
He jumps ship in March, 2017; with his halo intact?
Kristina Kaiser Gehrki says
Thank you, Annie, for your compassion and kind understanding. My daughter meant the world to me. I share my tragic, true “story” so that other mom’s might enjoy their beautiful children for a lot longer than I was able to enjoy my lovely child. Her story is featured in the documentary “Letters from Generation RX” available on the VIMEO website. Natalie’s diaries are used in the trailer (which you can view for free on the VIMEO site) and in the section “Netherworld” at approximately the 1.22 time frame.
I will be faithful to the truth regardless if it harms me. Anything less would be a disservice to my daughter…and all other children who might be similarly harmed.
Rory says
You are wrong. period. Paroxetine does have serious adverse reactions associated with its use. It is written on the labels and in the drug information sheets.
The problem is, the same one you have, is that people have been deliberately misled by the actions and words of the drug manufacturers. Deliberately misled into thinking the drugs cannot cause an adverse reaction such as the one this man experienced. Suicide, homicide are the direct result of taking the drug, often through the mechanism of severe akathisia caused by the drug, disinhibition caused by the drug and psychosis caused by the drug. The patient, even if they have read the warnings, often do not attribute the adverse effects to the drug for several reasons. One, they are often told that it is them, their mental illness, not the drug that causes these symptoms. Two, the misleading wording in the warnings such as ” mild and rare, ” and ” not established by association”.
I’m sorry you have been misled. It has effected your judgment and clouded your ability for empathy.
mary says
David (Carmichael), how brave of you to put forward your very personal story and share it with all of us. Your account is so touching and I’m sure that many who read it will find that much of what you describe is true of their experiences too.
It must be extremely difficult living with such vivid memories and having to accept that you ( under the influence) were capable of such an atrocity. A lesser man would have sent himself crazy simply by having those memories to deal with.
You must have spent hours upon hours, after the event, thinking through all the reasons, emotions and deluded thoughts that completely took over your life during that period.
Your story has re-opened old wounds for me – of watching a son go through a similar range of warped thoughts, ideas and actions whilst on Seroxat ( Paxil) in 2002. If only I’d screamed louder about the horrors it can bring, maybe you’d have been spared the prescription – but that is how things work with these horrors. You suffer – you speak out – your voice is drowned – the story dies ……and another horror story begins.
I should add that no-one was killed during our son’s Seroxat trip – but a part of him died inasmuch as the son we have now is totally different to the son pre-Seroxat.
My thoughts are with you and my sincere wish is that your story will stop the next Seroxat/Paxil horror ever taking place.
annie says
Words cannot adequately give you solace.
The thing about Seroxat/Paxil is that we knew we were delusional and psychotic.
60mg. of Paxil – I cannot comprehend. I think if I had been on 60mg. of Seroxat, I would have gone much further than you did
60mg. of Paxil – you didn’t tell anyone of your delusional thoughts
20mg. of Seroxat – I told my gps
60mg. of Paxil – the Paxil went so far as to dissociate you from any communications
20mg. of Seroxat – the Seroxat only went so far and enabled communications
60mg. of Paxil – you didn’t harm yourself
20mg. of Seroxat – I harmed myself
I won’t draw a parallel, per se
You live with this, I am sure as best you are able and it would be unforgivably unfair to do so.
But, 60mg. of Paxil you were living with all these demons of Drug Abuse all by yourself and 60mg. of Paxil, it was so deep and so horrible that no wonder a calamitous incident took place
But, 20mg. of Seroxat, restarting induced, no planning with me.
I was completely taken over with a half-an-hour journey of how to do it; water, gas, what could I do?
Then two days of respite and then forty-five minutes of manic delusion, gas, blades, rope
Like you a child was involved.
My Paroxetine psychotic mind told me to take her with me.
We would go together.
This was through love. With all my heart, I didn’t want to leave her. She was my world, my love, my precious gift
The Akathisiatica works fast and before there were any more reflections on her, it took me over with one terrifying result and the time to take her had gone.
I do understand it as only one who has experienced, Paroxetine induced violence can
Although you are a free man, you are not a free man as I am not either
It’s a life sentence and we go on to the best of our abilities
Seroxat and Paxil is, and, takes us, beyond evil….with no forgiveness….included
It doesn’t all magically disappear in the same way that it magically appeared
Prescriberratica
Haunting for you and for us, thank you David, C.
Love your word, Prescripticide, and do comment on our comments if you would like to as there is nothing worse than being talked about…..:)
I think you, may be like me, took a few years before we could even begin to put it all in to a coherent essay..and be suitably sanguine..a very tough call
This is such a low-blow from GlaxoSmithKline
Selma Eikelenboom says
Dear David,
I cannot imagine how much pain this all has cost you.
I respect you deeply for going through this again and facing up to the resonsibilty to confront the world about the havoc these drugs cause.
Let us all work together to create awarness and if your suffering saved but 1 child it was worth it.
Hugs,
Selma
erin says
david, i have reached out to you elsewhere but will do so here as well. it was lovely meeting you and hearing your story in person, on the screen- and now, in print. lovely to meet you, but horrifying to hear what these drugs can do- turn a lovely family man into a temporary monster.
thank you for bravely sharing your story and your pain. when we share our experiences we can be assured someone , and hopefully many someones, will hear, and learn, and lives will be saved and families will heal.
blessings to you and to the soul of your beautiful ian.
all the best,
-erin
Anelia Sutton says
Thank you for sharing your story, David. It is a powerful and cautionary story that will help people understand the dangerous side effects of prescription drugs. You also give honor to your family and everyone who suffered a loss. For this, we are indebted to you. Thank you for being brave enough to speak out. God bless you and your family.
Anna-Maria says
Dear Mr Carmichael,
Thank you for sharing your personal story, I have tremendous admiration for your courage and bravery. Your testimony must have been extremely difficult to express in such details but I want you to know that by sharing your experience you have helped thousand others who are living the same inner nightmares. You have been and are a voice to us all who cannot speak, the “misunderstood”, the ones who are ridiculed, hiding in silence; suffering in total isolation and being juggled around the medical system.
I know that my words or that of anyone, cannot ease the pain your are feeling, I understand too well. Peace and many blessings to you and your family.
Carla says
Dear David,
Thank you for courageously telling your story.
It must be very painful for you to come out and say it the way it is.
I cried a river of tears whilst reading your story.
I cried for you and I cried for your helpless son.
How many stories like this does it take for change to come about?
I always think about how other drugs, such as ice, alters/distorts an individual’s way of thinking and it has just hit me that these poisons are no different to street drugs.
Last night, I watched a documentary on four corners and it focused on ‘supplements and safety’.
It is all relevant.
They made the FDA look ‘squeaky’ clean and mentioned before a medicine goes out on the market it goes through stringent protocols.
I was very upset with this documentary as many were being paid top dollar to lie about the safety of our medicines.
For crying out loud, when are they going to start focusing on medicines and safety.
How many lives have to be taken before anyone does anything about these unforgiving poisons?
Big fat enterprises will have to come forward one day and tell everyone the TRUTH about what they put in these poisons.
Ian, sadly had no voice.
To all those people who judge, ridicule, make mockery of and belittle ~ you have failed a lot of innocent people and you have silenced us for way too long..
Victory is yet to come.
Thank you, David for your honesty and sharing your story with the world about how these poisons impact one’s mind.
I know that your story will make people think twice before they pop a ‘so called safe pill’ down their throat.
Thank you to each and everyone of you who have reads David’s story and have understood that these poisons kill the ‘good’ in people.
It takes a lot of compassion and understanding to realise that these poisons do not benefit people especially, when innocent people are involved.
Maria says
Thank you for sharing your story. My partner was given massive doses of Lyrica and Gababentin (Neurontin) and he became very violent. The psychiatrist was extremely hostile and un-cooperative when I was telling him this and the end result was that we stopped the drug by ourselves, only for my partner to have a massive psychotic episode, nearly killing him and me…I have been living a total nightmare since last July when he started the drugs as he became violent, rageful, paranoid, and nothing like the man I knew and fell in love with….Thank God, I read a lot on internet and realised that it is the drug, not him…so I stood by him but an expense to my health as I was stressed and afraid for many months. After a very fast taper, he stopped cold turkey, only to suffer from extreme neuropathic pain and to stop sleeping in the nights…more hell for all of us…Only cbd/thc saved us…I am so sorry for your son, you have to remember that it is the drug not you…will be praying for you both and your family.
Kristina Kaiser Gehrki says
Nice to see Wikipedia now shares the definition of “prescripticide.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescripticide
Perhaps as public awareness increases, so, too, will the realization that government regulators, doctors, and product manufacturers are often complicit in such tragic deaths. Though physically absent at the “crime” scene, they are guilty nonetheless.
Noel Hershfield says
Terrible story,written with so little. Emotion!What do the experts think about another psychoactive drug being loosed on society without ANY good information at all!Marijuana on the roll!
Noel Hershfield says
Now another psychactive drug is being unleashed on the market,without standards,controlled studies,and acceptance by the profession! We are already seeing psychotic breaks in our emergencies.With all this awareness of the dangers of ssris etc where do the poor patients turn.Naturopaths ,massage,iridologists?
dave cohen says
my wife committed suicide on elavil. sounds like her story. i had to raiae my daughter myself. ruined my life. it was the drug
Carla says
My condolences to you Dave.
It must be very hard for you and your daughter.
I am sorry your wife had to leave this world prematurely.
This poison ruins so many lives.
When are they going to put the ‘black box’ warning on these poisons to say that~ it can induce suicide in anyone aged above 18 years of age.
I nearly lost a dear friend to this poison.
It nearly took my life, also.
Where does it show up in their data that it induces suicide in people over 18 years of age?
It is still happening as we speak.
Those in positions of power can continue to pretend in does not happen.
They should put their heads down in shame knowing what these poisons do and not making it public.
Stay strong Dave and hang in there for your daughter.
There is an important role that you, your daughter and others have to be part of.
Thank you for having the courage to come here and speak about your tragic loss of your beloved wife and how it has impacted you and your daughter.
Be brave and tell your story to whoever you meet.
We are all in this together.
There are days that you are going to be very upset and there are days when you are going to feel compelled to do something.
You will instinctively know who to talk to about your loss.
You may even put up your own website to create some kind of awareness.
Creating awareness in people’s consciousness, is one positive step forward.
Every person you meet will sympathise and begin to understand that these poisons are not what they are made out to be.
When you speak up you are empowering you, your daughter and others to speak up.
People from all walks of life will one day appreciate what you, me and plenty of other people are trying to achieve.
Baby steps leads to bigger steps and one day you will see that you will have direction and purpose in your life.
Your daughter will also see that talking about it will benefit others.
She may even have the opportunity to talk about her story in educational institutions.
It is all leading us somewhere.
It is all good.
When you are ready, the appropriate people will support you and your daughter.
Give yourself and daughter all the time in the world to grieve and have space to absorb what has happened.
The masses, will eventually absorb what we are trying to say.
It takes one person at a time.
The ripple effect can be very contagious.
Believe have faith and know that good will come out of all of this.
It takes time but I am very certain that it will happen.
Look what happened with the tobacco industry.
This one is no different!
It is going to happen and it will happen very soon…………………………
Sending you oceans of love to you and your daughter.
Carla says
Hi Noel,
Why do they introduce a ‘newbie’ knowing damn well what the others are inducing??????????????
Where do the poor patients turn to?
Unfortunately, natural alternatives are not the answer!
If these poor patients are not strong enough, it can turn to a major catastrophe, which has already been happening for a long time.
Someone has got to get to these poor people and tell them that adding one poison to another poison, is not going to benefit them.
There needs to be a safe environment that people can turn to wean themselves off this poison.
Time, patience and ongoing emotional support are the essence to ensuring optimum success however, where does one find such a place?
If a person is not in the right frame of mind, whilst on these poisons, they will do what anyone tells them to do!
I feel sorry for all concerned.
Kate Davis says
Carla, I am in agreement that there needs be a safe place to recover from RX poisoning. Once you are dependent on these hideous poisons you will be abandoned by the medical community for fear of law-suit. You are criminalized and deemed mentally ill. We all get to where we must hide or run from this broken system to truly recover. We need “Cities of Refuge.” Please e-mail me.
Rory says
David
Thank you for sharing your story with us. That could very well have been a story about me. My drug list included 5 major drug interaction warnings for serotonin syndrome. I was never once warned or told about any possible negative reactions to the drugs I was taking, taking as prescribed. I sincerely hope you have come to terms with what happened and forgive yourself. The fault lies squarely on the drug companies and the healthcare providers, including pharmacists, who unleash these hellish drugs on the unsuspecting public. When will they be prosecuted for what they have done and continue to do?
Blessings and thanks again for your courage in sharing your story.
Caroline says
It’s a shame that some people cannot yet believe these drugs might convert human beings into adrenaline robots, but they sure do. The unanointed are happy enough to believe that PCP or LSD can induce such behavior. Because those drugs are illicit, a healthy whack of blame can be laid on the user for taking them in the first place, and it makes a neat little package to be handed around at parties and discussed in tones of awe, but not pity.
When a prescribed medicine is blamed for causing purposeful zombie-ism and all it affords, the patient cannot be blamed for taking it, but whose fault is it? The thinking gets muddled.
–FDA/MHRA checked the drug’s effects very carefully and ascertained that it’s safe, if nothing else.
–Doctors know how drugs work, because they know how people work.
–So it’s this: it wasn’t the drug!
The patient CAN be blamed–not like the PCP-taker is blamed, though, for stupidly putting a chemical in his brain, because it was nothing to do with taking a drug. It was the patient herself. Maybe the pills make some people feel a bit weird at first (“like I do when I’ve had too much wine, I suppose”) but it is the person who did the behavior, and we always choose our behaviors (unless PCP or LSD). The mind thought the thoughts that made the body do what it did. (“Even when I’m drunk, and do something naughty, it’s because I wanted to.”) Ahhhhh.
—–*—–
And the un-anointed pay taxes to fund the salaries and lavish retirement plans at the FDA/MHRA, to enrich the drug execs, and reward the doctors, without the least bit of concern for the killings they finance every week, or every day. They’re not to blame. There can be no question of that.
Carla says
My heart goes out to each and everyone of you.
I hope their will be a public enquiry, soon.
The TRUTH needs to come out so that the people are made aware of these poisons.
If they help save lives, why are so many suffering whilst on them?
Carla says
Caroline, I am not quite following what you are saying.
I am trying to understand what you have written.
This is a very sensitive topic for me however, I will do my best to explain to you that once these poisons get a grip on you, it has nothing to do with ‘normal behaviour’.
One similarity between LSD and meds is that they are all addictive and harmful to the brain.
Thank you for your comment ~ Is it possible to clarify the point you are trying to make.
Perceptions/logic and reasoning go ‘out the window’ when a med harms a person.
Some cannot believe that a med can drastically alter behaviour or make one cause harm to themselves.
If the FDA are BIG PHARMA, how can we see any standards of care?
The sheep are dressed in wolves clothing and we are the fools for believing them.
They hide behind a smoke screen giving this impression that they there to help you and take all your worries away.
Everything looks good on paper.
People believe what they hear at forums.
Everyone is enticed with money, holidays and trinkets.
LSD, PCP and some dubious meds are all harmful, in my opinion.
One is prescribed and one is illicit.
They both cause drastic changes to the brain and alter ones behaviour and many don’t know what behavioural changes occur as a result of ingesting them.
You tell me the difference between the two?
There is no difference.
One is supposedly handled out in a clinical setting, making it look safe and trustworthy whilst the other is handed out for recreational purposes??????
If we ingest a med we trust and believe that it will benefit us, because of what we are told whilst the other is taken in an environment where we can supposedly ‘let our hair down and have fun’.
There is a fine line between the two:
‘one is prescribed by professionals with the knowledge that it is supposed to BENEFIT’
WHILST
the other is given to ‘have a good time?’
I guess, one has been programmed to believe that the prescribed one is harmless
WHILST
the other is taken at risk and see what happens????
Both of them are like having a loaded gun in your hands.
It is like playing a game of ‘Russian roulette’ with your life.
If one is for medicinal purposes and one is for reckless behaviour, there is NO knowing what harms or risks are involved, between the two.
They both impact behaviour and make drastic changes to the brain.
If one chooses to commit suicide, one cannot blame the individual for wanting to take their own life especially, if the meds or LSD alters the brain
Whenever any meds or drugs are involved, there is always going to be that element of knowing that it altered the brain and altered their normal ‘reasoning’ response.
There was NO WARNING given to the individual concerned of what would happen if you took a ‘happy pill’ that is considered safe.
If someone gives you a poison and you are in so much pain and suffering, do you blame the med or the behaviour for someone wanting to end your life?
These meds are dangerous like LSD.
You just don’t know how harmful/dangerous they are until you are put ‘into a grid lock’ and have no CONTROL of your behaviour.
These poisons: DISTORT/DERANGE the normal/rational/logical responses and if one is in so much pain, you will do whatever it takes to get yourself out of so much pain.
Behaviour is seen as an excuse to avoid any accountability on BIG PHARMAS behalf.
Smokes, alcohol, illicit drugs and some dubious meds all alter the ‘normal functioning of the brain’.
When one take a med for medicinal purposes thinking that it will benefit them, it is no different to all the other ones which cause harm.
How can the patient be blamed if the clinician has not been told the truth of how they harm people?
LSD is personal decision and many know the risks involved with how it impacts the brain HOWEVER, if a doctor tells you that meds are safe and will benefit you, some believe what a doctor tells you.
If someone wants to kill themselves through reckless behaviour because of wanting to have a good time, this is a choice.
They know these drugs kill.
Once you become addicted to these illicit drugs they destroy the ‘good’ in people.
Some of these meds are no different.
They destroy the “good’ in people also, making you look like you are in control when you are not!
They become addictive and when you want to come off of them, they end up making one’s life very miserable.
Another WARNING they have failed to put on the meds.
Withdrawal symptoms can induce:
Violent/aggressive behaviour, panic attacks, seizures, fogging of brain, suicide, aneurysm, personality changes etc…………
The homicides you see on the news every day, are a result of peoples meds or illicit drugs.
Many take illicit drugs with no one’s consent.
Sometimes, it is not even a choice if someone spikes your drink and you die as a result of these ‘good time drugs’.
Big Pharma has failed to WARN that:
They are can induce involuntary suicide.
With illicit drugs you know the risk involved but with these meds there are no guarantees that your life will also be put at risk especially when one is mixing one bad poison with another bad poison.
Carla says
Lets us be sensitive to people grieving on this website.
I forgot to mention that these poisons take all your inhibitions away.
Like drugs, you do not know when to put on the brakes.
Addictions like: gambling, sex, shopping, gaming, alcohol etc. have been noted.
If BIG PHARMA are so smart, WHY???????????????????????????????
have they put a WARNING that it can induce suicide up to the age of 18.
If it impacts children and adolescents, it also the capability of impacting everyone else.
You can not discriminate with age.
Why are they considering to put this warning up till the age of 25 years of age when it is occurring to all age groups.
You are putting profits before people and it does not make any sense!
If big Pharma are going to discriminate when it comes to age, boy oh boy, have they got a lot of explaining to do.
Increased suicide can also occur in ages of 18 years and above.
Just come and talk to my friend and I.
Globally, I am sure that there are many more innocent people who have been maimed and died and there are still more to come.
It is not about saving the world, as one person told me.
It is about doing the right thing.
The un-anointed are excellent targets and they will never know the truth if warnings never change.
People from all walks of life need to be informed.
Carla says
What about the warning of PSSD.
They most likely have this in the product disclosure pamphlet, now.
however, back when I ingested it, it did not say anything about PSSD.
Are they going to blame it on poor relationships, depression, PTSD, being an unskilled lover………………………..whatever.
You understand what I am getting to.
Some people never had theses problems before they took these poisons.
Many have lost:
-THEIR JOBS
-LOST THEIR LIBIDO
-RISKED THEIR LIVES
-LOST THEIR FRIENDS
-IMPACTED OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS
-HAVE A LONG LIST OF DISEASES THAT IMPACTS THEIR GOOD HEALTH
-CAN NO LONGER ENJOY THE THINGS THEY USE TO ENJOY
-LOST THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE
Tell BIG PAHRMA and all the others concerned that if the tables were reversed what would they say or do?
mary says
I am also unsure of Caroline’s meaning. If you think that adverse reactions to these drugs can be compared with being drunk, then you are very wide of the mark. They are more like an epileptic fit than anything else I can think of. Should we turn round to epileptics also and blame them for their episodes? – of course not and neither should we blame these individuals who simply followed their doctor’s suggestions.
Maybe you mean that IN LAW we should find these people responsible for their own actions? Again, compare notes on epilepsy.
However, if you are saying that we should not criticise the makers of the drugs, then, I’m sorry, but I totally disagree with you.
My only hope is that you will never witness an adverse reaction episode because, if you did, I can guarantee you that your ideas would change for ever.
Carla says
So what is the difference between drug pushers, some clinicians and big pharma?
All these medicines that are deemed safe don’t come in a neat little package.
They are promoted by Big Pharma to be beneficial to the patient and cause no harm whatsoever. The clever glamorous advertisements market these medicines in such a way that makes them look ‘harm free’.
If random flawed batches are deliberately being created, we never know when our gun is loaded with blanks or the real bullet and this really worries me.
What are the similarities between illicit and legal drugs?
1. Both legal and illicit drugs can adversely harm you
2. Once you are harmed, the illegal drug pusher will take NO RESPONSIBILITY.
The same applies for some clinicians and big pharma. Many times the doctor
may be seen as negligent in our judicial system. In actual fact,the blame should
be placed on the drug itself. Do we ever hear of a medicine being tested to see
if it was flawed in any way? If we want all the proof and evidence, we have
to cover all angles.
How on earth can a med be blamed if the:
– information is suppressed or
– if big pharma are buying these people
who test flawed batches, to keep their mouth shut?
– Your career is impacted if you speak up
3. There are no test records that come with illegal drugs. The same applies for
some pharmaceutical medicines. Some of the information is suppressed and
kept secret in Big Pharmas vault.
4. Drug pushers have financial gains from selling their drugs and they don’t care
who they hurt in the process.
Some clinicians have incentives to sell certain meds and when someone is
maimed or dies, it does not impact them.
In a nutshell, some clinicians are no different to drug cartels.
The clinicians are working for corrupt Big Pharma and they will never know who they are giving a loaded gun to.
To accept the current ‘status quo’ is like saying that:
– patients don’t matter
– we will do as we are told or else we will have no job if we speak up
– money matters before the patients well being
– we will take no responsibility/accountability because this is how the legal/medical
establishment has been rigidly functioning for a long time.
The system is broken.
PEOPLES WELL BEING, COME BEFORE PROFITS.
ETHICS & MORAL OBLIGATION COME BEFORE PROFITS,ALSO.
Carla says
You put it so eloquently, Mary.
Your response is so accurate and on the ball.
Fighting for your life and having a glass wine are two different things.
You can never draw a similarity.
One is temporary and the other can be permanent and fatal.
If a medicine is flawed, tampered with, adulterated or contaminated where it puts a life at risk, you tell me, Caroline, how on earth can you blame that persons behaviour for the outcome?
How can you draw a similarity between drinking and bad medicine?
A patient places his/her trust in a medical professional, with an expectation that they will be provided with the best advice with their health and well being placed on the highest priority.
They also come with an expectation that they will be informed of all the risks taking the prescribed drug.
Unfortunately, this perfect scenario is not always realised.
You have situations where the medical professionals might not be aware of all the risks or may have a conflict of interest ( being paid by the drug companies), or the medication is compromised.
Knowing this, how can a patient behaviour be blamed?
I only wish that ingesting a ‘bad medicine’ was the same as drinking alcohol.
When your gun is loaded with real bullets, I believe you would think twice before you blame an individuals behaviour to something which was out of their control!
When you swallow a bad pill, it is too late!
Carla says
If someone puts a loaded gun at your head, are you going to blame the fear for your hysterical behaviour or are you going to blame the bullet for the harm it will cause.
Think about this one very carefully.
Analogy: If a medicine is flawed in anyway and harms an individual, an individual’s behavioural response cannot be blamed for the harm it induced.
If it causes excruciating pain, damages the blood brain barrier, compromises the immune system, induces a form of psychosis or makes ones condition worse, people have a right to know what these ‘so called’ meds can induce.
If a med is so safe and has passed all the ‘so called’ safe gold standard regulations, it should not make people harm themselves or others.
– When a so called ‘safe med’ harms the brain, we have to question the integrity of that medicine.
– When harm occurs, is it completely ok to neglect a patient and leave them to suffer without any answers. Even if they can not be cured, once the damage has been done, surely that individual concerned has a right to be treated with dignity and respect. Where is the compassion when something goes wrong?
– One cannot regulate safety in a lab. There are variables to test results.
– One cannot falsify information. This is unethical.
If there are so many deaths/year, globally, from a particular breed of medicine, one cannot possibly make a connection that it is associated with that particular medicine.
If clinicians are not taken seriously when a particular so called safe medicine maims or kills and the information (risks) are not put out to the public, there is clearly something wrong with the system.
It is randomly occurring, globally.
If one sees a pattern emerging, that a particular breed of medicine is causing a particular problem, one would start to question the ‘authenticity’ of a beneficial medicine.
– One cannot keep all the critical information (‘intellectual property’) pertaining to a particular medicine, in their safety vault especially, if it is a well-known fact to inducing harm.
– One cannot alter the molecular structure of a particular medicine without ones consent. It does happen and we will never be privy to this kind of information unless, someone is a ‘whistle-blower’.
– If a medicine is highly concentrated, manipulated or tampered with, in any shape, way or form, how does the consumer know this?
It is too late, once the deadly python grabs your jugular and take hold of you.
My question:
Who oversees what anyone does in these particular circumstance?
A body or organization, is certainly not qualified to say that a product is ‘deemed safe’ especially, if some of the negative clinical data results are not mentioned.
Surely/certainly, there is enough proof or evidence, to draw a conclusion that a ‘particular medicine’ has induced harm, time and time again.
The celebrities who die as a result of ingesting a certain medicine, are giving us ‘clear substantial clues, into what may have caused their unforeseen death.
We have the information, but choose, to deny that it is that particular branch of medicine, inducing harm and death. Why ~ because so many claim that it benefits them! Well maybe they are very fortunate to miss the game of chance and go through their whole life not having a loaded gun put to their head. What are the statistics of ending up with a flawed batch????
Perhaps, those who are alive and survived these brutal medicines, can shed some light into what is being obscured.
If we can all carry on as if this is ‘normal’ and those who are the gatekeepers of our lives are compromising it, then I am afraid there is something so fundamentally wrong with our ethics and moral obligations.
I believe the scales of justice have been thrown out the window a long time ago and those who are perceived to do no harm, have been given a ‘pat on the back’ and allowed to get away with this kind of behaviour again and again because the Law condones it.
Carla says
You can either love me or hate me.
Quite frankly, it does not bother me what type of feelings the medical fraternity has towards me.
I am just trying to do my best so that no other being has to suffer what I have been through. I know of many who have been to hell and back, just like me.
I am not an isolated incident.
What has been said on this forum needed to be done ~ Better now than never!
I am not in this business to be loved.
If we want to fight corruption, wherever it may exist, someone has to be prepared to take the punches ~ I and many others,have paid our dues.
If we all want to BENEFIT we have to demand that changes be implemented into the current medico/legal system.
People can see that it is not working.
I believe that we can all BENEFIT from having an ETHICAL drug industry.
The REGULATORS and the people making drugs are in complete catastrophe and we have to start demanding that these people do the right thing.
It’s long overdue, one would think……………..!
Marie says
Does any one know of specific researched articles that have investigated alcohol cravings/addiction caused by zoloft? or other SSRi’s?